A thought about the iPhone

[David Kennedy]

o2 and Apple are selling the new iPhone at £269 in the UK as they say
they will not subsidize customers.

Fair enough, no one wants subsidies.

It does raise some interesting questions though...
a) if it is not subsidised then why do I pay the same rate for phone
calls as if I'd received a free or subsidized hand set ?
b) If there is no subsidy then why can't I decide what network to use it
with ?

[Richard Tobin]

Post by David Kennedy
b) If there is no subsidy then why can't I decide what network to use it
with ?

This question only makes sense if you think that a subsidy is some
kind of justified payment, rather than just a means of profit
maximisation.

If you could choose the network, Apple wouldn't get any of the money
after you'd bought it.

-- Richard

[David Kennedy]

Post by Richard Tobin

Post by David Kennedy
b) If there is no subsidy then why can't I decide what network to use it
with ?

This question only makes sense if you think that a subsidy is some
kind of justified payment, rather than just a means of profit
maximisation.

A normal phone is subsidised to get you to use their network - all the
other networks are competing for your business - but, once you buy, on
whatever network, then they hit you with the charges over the term of
the contract.

Post by Richard Tobin
If you could choose the network, Apple wouldn't get any of the money
after you'd bought it.

Oh.

God.

I'm really sorry about that.

Should I send them a quid every time I use my Powerbook ?

[Ian Robinson]

Post by David Kennedy
A normal phone is subsidised to get you to use their network - all the
other networks are competing for your business - but, once you buy, on
whatever network, then they hit you with the charges over the term of
the contract.

Has anyone done a comparison with other phones and their monthly costs
over the term? When it was done for the USA iPhone tariffs it actually
worked out cheaper in many cases.

Ian

[David Kennedy]

Post by Ian Robinson

Post by David Kennedy
A normal phone is subsidised to get you to use their network - all the
other networks are competing for your business - but, once you buy, on
whatever network, then they hit you with the charges over the term of
the contract.

Has anyone done a comparison with other phones and their monthly costs
over the term? When it was done for the USA iPhone tariffs it actually
worked out cheaper in many cases.
Ian

That's not really the issue though with the iPhone. Apple, and O2, both
say the phone is not subsidized - and the price _is_ comparable with the
US price - so the point is, having bought the phone then why should we
pay a royalty on our phone calls a) over and above the true cost to O2
and b) to Apple ?????

[Ian Robinson]

Post by David Kennedy
so the point is, having bought the phone then why should we
pay a royalty on our phone calls a) over and above the true cost to O2
and b) to Apple ?????

You're paying for the calls. Are the calls dearer than using a
different phone?

Ian

[David Kennedy]

Post by Ian Robinson

Post by David Kennedy
so the point is, having bought the phone then why should we
pay a royalty on our phone calls a) over and above the true cost to O2
and b) to Apple ?????

You're paying for the calls. Are the calls dearer than using a
different phone?

Wooosh.

You're missing my point - and I had thought that I'd been fairly clear -
which is that the calls made with an iPhone are charged at normal rates.
i.e. the same rates charged as a subsidized phone. So, O2 are making
back an extra percentage of the call costs but _not_ having to subsidize
the phone cost. And, also, Apple are getting a cut - I've heard various
figures of from 15 to 40% of the revenue.

Now, what I want to know is why O2 don't reduce the call cost as they do
not have to subsidize the cost of the phone and, as I don't pay Samsung
a percentage every time I use my present phone, why I should pay Apple a
royalty to use the iPhone phone?

[Ian Robinson]

Post by David Kennedy
You're missing my point

Yes. but I've got it now.

Post by David Kennedy
Now, what I want to know is why O2 don't reduce the call cost as they do
not have to subsidize the cost of the phone and, as I don't pay Samsung
a percentage every time I use my present phone, why I should pay Apple a
royalty to use the iPhone phone?

Because no one else has had the ability to make the networks do this.
Expect others to follow suit.

Ian

[David Kennedy]

Post by Ian Robinson

Post by David Kennedy
You're missing my point

Yes. but I've got it now.

Post by David Kennedy
Now, what I want to know is why O2 don't reduce the call cost as they do
not have to subsidize the cost of the phone and, as I don't pay Samsung
a percentage every time I use my present phone, why I should pay Apple a
royalty to use the iPhone phone?

Because no one else has had the ability to make the networks do this.
Expect others to follow suit.

Then expect most consumers to drop it like a hot turd. I've already
emailed the OFT to find out their view on the situation.

[Stephen2]

On Sep 21, 7:58 am, David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy

Post by Ian Robinson

Post by David Kennedy
You're missing my point

Yes. but I've got it now.

Post by David Kennedy
Now, what I want to know is why O2 don't reduce the call cost as they do
not have to subsidize the cost of the phone and, as I don't pay Samsung
a percentage every time I use my present phone, why I should pay Apple a
royalty to use the iPhone phone?

Because no one else has had the ability to make the networks do this.
Expect others to follow suit.

Then expect most consumers to drop it like a hot turd. I've already
emailed the OFT to find out their view on the situation.
--
David Kennedy
http://www.anindianinexile.com

I'm not sure it will be very successful in this country. I think most
people will see it as a very expensive phone rather than as an ipod +
phone + browser. And since you can get a free phone from most networks
why bother paying for an iPhone plus £35/month minimum for 18 months?
It's a lot of money!!!

[Sarah Brown]

Post by Stephen2
I'm not sure it will be very successful in this country. I think most
people will see it as a very expensive phone rather than as an ipod +
phone + browser.

A very expensive phone that doesn't do picture messaging, or record
video.

[Ian Robinson]

Wil Shipley has posted some thoughts on this, and related topics:

<http://wilshipley.com/blog/2007/09/iphone-ipod-contain-or-
disengage.html>

Ian

[zoara]

Post by Sarah Brown

Post by Stephen2
I'm not sure it will be very successful in this country. I think most
people will see it as a very expensive phone rather than as an ipod +
phone + browser.

A very expensive phone that doesn't do picture messaging, or record
video.

I'm going to be very interested in how well the iPhone does over here. I
suspect that it will end up being shunned by the people who want real
smartphones, but might be seen as a cool device by those people who want
phones that do a little bit more, but can't be bothered with the
complexity of geek-phones.

What will be most interesting is how well it does in the trend-driven
"upgrade evry year to the latest model" world of the UK. The US isn't so
much like this, is it?

-z-

[Woody]

Post by zoara

Post by Sarah Brown

Post by Stephen2
I'm not sure it will be very successful in this country. I think most
people will see it as a very expensive phone rather than as an ipod +
phone + browser.

A very expensive phone that doesn't do picture messaging, or record
video.

I'm going to be very interested in how well the iPhone does over here. I
suspect that it will end up being shunned by the people who want real
smartphones, but might be seen as a cool device by those people who want
phones that do a little bit more, but can't be bothered with the
complexity of geek-phones.
What will be most interesting is how well it does in the trend-driven
"upgrade evry year to the latest model" world of the UK. The US isn't so
much like this, is it?

Yes, it is now. Well, every other year as 24 month contracts seem more
common.

[David Kennedy]

Post by zoara
I'm going to be very interested in how well the iPhone does over here. I
suspect that it will end up being shunned by the people who want real
smartphones, but might be seen as a cool device by those people who want
phones that do a little bit more, but can't be bothered with the
complexity of geek-phones.

Nail on head.

And, as you say, who wants to be arsed changing phone every year.

[Woody]

David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy

Post by zoara
I'm going to be very interested in how well the iPhone does over here. I
suspect that it will end up being shunned by the people who want real
smartphones, but might be seen as a cool device by those people who want
phones that do a little bit more, but can't be bothered with the
complexity of geek-phones.

Nail on head.
And, as you say, who wants to be arsed changing phone every year.

It would appear a large number of people. I changed this year, I went
from a silver N73 to a black one. It was free, saved me £10 / month on
calls as well as getting me £130 from the old one!

[David Kennedy]

Post by David Kennedy
David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy

Post by zoara
I'm going to be very interested in how well the iPhone does over here. I
suspect that it will end up being shunned by the people who want real
smartphones, but might be seen as a cool device by those people who want
phones that do a little bit more, but can't be bothered with the
complexity of geek-phones.

Nail on head.
And, as you say, who wants to be arsed changing phone every year.

It would appear a large number of people. I changed this year, I went
from a silver N73 to a black one. It was free, saved me £10 / month on
calls as well as getting me £130 from the old one!

This only happens because of the subsidies - what choice would you have
made if they offered you half price calls or a free phone ?

[Woody]

David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy
David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy

Post by zoara
I'm going to be very interested in how well the iPhone does over here. I
suspect that it will end up being shunned by the people who want real
smartphones, but might be seen as a cool device by those people who want
phones that do a little bit more, but can't be bothered with the
complexity of geek-phones.

Nail on head.
And, as you say, who wants to be arsed changing phone every year.

It would appear a large number of people. I changed this year, I went
from a silver N73 to a black one. It was free, saved me £10 / month on
calls as well as getting me £130 from the old one!

This only happens because of the subsidies - what choice would you have
made if they offered you half price calls or a free phone ?

Half price calls. the phone was the same, just a different colour.

But from my point of view, it saved me £240 in that year, so it was a
simple choice. The downside was that I am on contract for another year,
but with the reduced cost of contract and money back from the phone it
means I get 150 hours of calls, 2400 texts, 600 mms, 600 minutes of
video calling and £60 games/services for £120. Which seems pretty good.

[David Kennedy]

Post by David Kennedy
David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy
David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy

Post by zoara
I'm going to be very interested in how well the iPhone does over here. I
suspect that it will end up being shunned by the people who want real
smartphones, but might be seen as a cool device by those people who want
phones that do a little bit more, but can't be bothered with the
complexity of geek-phones.

Nail on head.
And, as you say, who wants to be arsed changing phone every year.

It would appear a large number of people. I changed this year, I went
from a silver N73 to a black one. It was free, saved me £10 / month on
calls as well as getting me £130 from the old one!

This only happens because of the subsidies - what choice would you have
made if they offered you half price calls or a free phone ?

Half price calls. the phone was the same, just a different colour.
But from my point of view, it saved me £240 in that year, so it was a
simple choice. The downside was that I am on contract for another year,
but with the reduced cost of contract and money back from the phone it
means I get 150 hours of calls, 2400 texts, 600 mms, 600 minutes of
video calling and £60 games/services for £120. Which seems pretty good.

True. But, as has been pointed out, the business model here in the UK
seems to be fixed on churning customers every year or so and enticing
them to stay with phone upgrades. I think we're getting to the point
where most phones do the job fairly well within their target categories
and that surely it's time we started seeing the benefit of cost
reductions rather than the endless round of consumerism - my last phone
I used for almost 5 years.

[Bazz]

Post by David Kennedy
And, as you say, who wants to be arsed changing phone every year.

I do.

I use my phone for - gasp - making phone calls. Thats it. I don't keep
notes, videos, music, or picures on it.

Every year, t-mobile want me to renew my contract, so they give me
'credit' towards a new phone. This year I got a Nokia 6300 and don't use
90% of the features - the camera basically sucks arse compared to even a
cheap digital compact, the music player, well, I suppose I *could* listen
to music that way, but I really prefer my stereo, it does, however, make
phone calls pretty well, is clear and easy to find the number I want to
call.

Plus my phone from last year is looking a bit shabby..it goes in my
pocket so the screen gets scratched.

If the iPhone had an eBook reader compatible with Mobipocket, I would
probably get one and ditch the Palm TX and save one device, but I
probably still wouldn't use all the iPhone features. it's certainly not
worth £269 to ME.

BAzz

[David Kennedy]

Post by Bazz

Post by David Kennedy
And, as you say, who wants to be arsed changing phone every year.

I do.
I use my phone for - gasp - making phone calls. Thats it. I don't keep
notes, videos, music, or picures on it.

So do I.

Post by Bazz
Every year, t-mobile want me to renew my contract, so they give me
'credit' towards a new phone. This year I got a Nokia 6300 and don't use
90% of the features - the camera basically sucks arse compared to even a
cheap digital compact, the music player, well, I suppose I *could* listen
to music that way, but I really prefer my stereo, it does, however, make
phone calls pretty well, is clear and easy to find the number I want to
call.

I'd rather they cut the price of calls. The only time I bother swapping
is if another member of the family needs a phone.

Post by Bazz
Plus my phone from last year is looking a bit shabby..it goes in my
pocket so the screen gets scratched.

I got a little plastic cover. It cost 99p from ebay plus £1 postage for
a pack of 2.

[Sak Wathanasin]

Post by zoara
I'm going to be very interested in how well the iPhone does over here. I
suspect that it will end up being shunned by the people who want real
smartphones, but might be seen as a cool device by those people who want
phones that do a little bit more, but can't be bothered with the
complexity of geek-phones.

The people who go around ticking off feature lists won't be interested in
the iPhone, but me, I'm just after a phone where I can see the phone number
that I'm about to dial without having to fish for my reading glasses. My
current phone has a gazillion features that I've never used because I can't
be bothered to figure out how they work. Picture messaging, for example. If
a photo was good or interesting enough to send, I'd want it on my Mac
anyway, so I might as well upload to my MacBook and e-mail it from there.

I'm willing to pay the premium for the iPhone (assuming it lives up to
expectations) for the same reason that I'm willing to pay 2-3 times more for
a Mac than an equivalent-spec'ed PC: I want a UI that doesn't suck.

[zoara]

Post by Sak Wathanasin

Post by zoara
I'm going to be very interested in how well the iPhone does over here. I
suspect that it will end up being shunned by the people who want real
smartphones, but might be seen as a cool device by those people who want
phones that do a little bit more, but can't be bothered with the
complexity of geek-phones.

The people who go around ticking off feature lists won't be interested in
the iPhone, but me, I'm just after a phone where I can see the phone number
that I'm about to dial without having to fish for my reading glasses. My
current phone has a gazillion features that I've never used because I can't
be bothered to figure out how they work. Picture messaging, for example. If
a photo was good or interesting enough to send, I'd want it on my Mac
anyway, so I might as well upload to my MacBook and e-mail it from there.
I'm willing to pay the premium for the iPhone (assuming it lives up to
expectations) for the same reason that I'm willing to pay 2-3 times more for
a Mac than an equivalent-spec'ed PC: I want a UI that doesn't suck.

Sure. But does the UK mobile phone market have very many people who want
a UI that doesn't suck? I'd like to think so, but I'm not sure.

(2-3 times?)

-z-

[Sak Wathanasin]

Post by zoara
Sure. But does the UK mobile phone market have very many people who want
a UI that doesn't suck? I'd like to think so, but I'm not sure.

I guess we're going to find out.

[Chris Ridd]

Post by Sak Wathanasin

Post by zoara
Sure. But does the UK mobile phone market have very many people who want
a UI that doesn't suck? I'd like to think so, but I'm not sure.

I guess we're going to find out.

I was surprised not to see any iPhone posters/etc in the O2 store I
passed yesterday. I'm sure they'll be pushing they very heavily shortly.

Cheers,

Chris

[Phillip Walters]

Post by Chris Ridd

Post by Sak Wathanasin

Post by zoara
Sure. But does the UK mobile phone market have very many people who want
a UI that doesn't suck? I'd like to think so, but I'm not sure.

I guess we're going to find out.

I was surprised not to see any iPhone posters/etc in the O2 store I
passed yesterday. I'm sure they'll be pushing they very heavily shortly.
Cheers,
Chris

They probably have to wait until Apple tell them they can advertise it,
and only then with Apple approved posters of a certain size with the
correct font and Apple approved wording, they then have to give Apple
between 10% and 40% of the said posters, gratis. Apart from that they
are presumably free to do what they like :-)

Phil

[Chris Ridd]

Post by Phillip Walters
They probably have to wait until Apple tell them they can advertise it,
and only then with Apple approved posters of a certain size with the
correct font and Apple approved wording, they then have to give Apple
between 10% and 40% of the said posters, gratis. Apart from that they
are presumably free to do what they like :-)
Phil

Heh. Have you spoken to your industry contacts recently BTW?

Cheers,

Chri

[Phillip Walters]

Post by Chris Ridd

Post by Phillip Walters
They probably have to wait until Apple tell them they can advertise it,
and only then with Apple approved posters of a certain size with the
correct font and Apple approved wording, they then have to give Apple
between 10% and 40% of the said posters, gratis. Apart from that they
are presumably free to do what they like :-)
Phil

Heh. Have you spoken to your industry contacts recently BTW?
Cheers,
Chri

Yes, they cant decide which one of them is going to be the resident O2
store iPhone expert, Stan or Ollie.

Phil

[Chris Ridd]

Post by Phillip Walters
Yes, they cant decide which one of them is going to be the resident O2
store iPhone expert, Stan or Ollie.

Has there been any eye poking yet?

Cheers,

Chris

[Phillip Walters]

Post by Chris Ridd

Post by Phillip Walters
Yes, they cant decide which one of them is going to be the resident O2
store iPhone expert, Stan or Ollie.

Has there been any eye poking yet?
Cheers,
Chris

Eye poking, tie waving, hat swapping, drum's of molasses, pianos up
steps...............you name it.

Phil

[David Kennedy]

On 2007-09-22 21:42:57 +0100, Sak Wathanasin

Post by Sak Wathanasin

Post by zoara
Sure. But does the UK mobile phone market have very many people who want
a UI that doesn't suck? I'd like to think so, but I'm not sure.

I guess we're going to find out.

I was surprised not to see any iPhone posters/etc in the O2 store I
passed yesterday. I'm sure they'll be pushing they very heavily shortly.

I think at the moment it's got it's own momentum.

[Woody]

Post by Stephen2
On Sep 21, 7:58 am, David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy

Post by Ian Robinson

Post by David Kennedy
You're missing my point

Yes. but I've got it now.

Post by David Kennedy
Now, what I want to know is why O2 don't reduce the call cost as they do
not have to subsidize the cost of the phone and, as I don't pay Samsung
a percentage every time I use my present phone, why I should pay Apple a
royalty to use the iPhone phone?

Because no one else has had the ability to make the networks do this.
Expect others to follow suit.

Then expect most consumers to drop it like a hot turd. I've already
emailed the OFT to find out their view on the situation.
--
David Kennedy
http://www.anindianinexile.com

I'm not sure it will be very successful in this country. I think most
people will see it as a very expensive phone rather than as an ipod +
phone + browser. And since you can get a free phone from most networks
why bother paying for an iPhone plus £35/month minimum for 18 months?
It's a lot of money!!!

I am sure it will be successfull enough. It is very nice to use,
although with the iPod touch out now, not as unique.
It is not as usefull a phone as it is in america, but it is still very
nice.

[David Kennedy]

Post by Stephen2
I'm not sure it will be very successful in this country. I think most
people will see it as a very expensive phone rather than as an ipod +
phone + browser. And since you can get a free phone from most networks
why bother paying for an iPhone plus £35/month minimum for 18 months?
It's a lot of money!!!

I don't see it like that although I will admit that there is a reverse
snobbery with some Wintel users willing to eat dog shit before admitting
than any Apple product might be worth having.

[Andrew Stephenson]

Post by David Kennedy
I don't see it like that although I will admit that there is a reverse
snobbery with some Wintel users willing to eat dog shit before admitting
than any Apple product might be worth having.

You know, I might pay to watch that ceremony.

[David Kennedy]

Post by Andrew Stephenson

Post by David Kennedy
I don't see it like that although I will admit that there is a reverse
snobbery with some Wintel users willing to eat dog shit before admitting
than any Apple product might be worth having.

You know, I might pay to watch that ceremony.

Most Saturdays at PC World

[Andrew Stephenson]

Post by David Kennedy

Post by Andrew Stephenson

Post by David Kennedy
I don't see it like that although I will admit that there is a reverse
snobbery with some Wintel users willing to eat dog shit before admitting
than any Apple product might be worth having.

You know, I might pay to watch that ceremony.

Most Saturdays at PC World

The eating _and_ the admitting?? Woo, I've stayed away too long.

[Andy Fraser]

Stephen2 <***@mailinator.com> wrote:

[snip]

Post by Stephen2
I'm not sure it will be very successful in this country. I think most
people will see it as a very expensive phone rather than as an ipod +
phone + browser. And since you can get a free phone from most networks
why bother paying for an iPhone plus £35/month minimum for 18 months?
It's a lot of money!!!

It makes perfect sense to me and I think it's well worth the money for
how I'd use one. I currently use a cheap PAYG phone because no other
phone so far offers what I'm looking for.

[Woody]

Post by Ian Robinson

Post by David Kennedy
so the point is, having bought the phone then why should we
pay a royalty on our phone calls a) over and above the true cost to O2
and b) to Apple ?????

You're paying for the calls. Are the calls dearer than using a
different phone?

Well, yes. for £35 on O2, you get 200 minutes and 200 texts. If you just
buy a sim from them that costs £25.

[David Kennedy]

Post by Woody

Post by Ian Robinson

Post by David Kennedy
so the point is, having bought the phone then why should we
pay a royalty on our phone calls a) over and above the true cost to O2
and b) to Apple ?????

You're paying for the calls. Are the calls dearer than using a
different phone?

Well, yes. for £35 on O2, you get 200 minutes and 200 texts. If you just
buy a sim from them that costs £25.

Exactly.

[Phillip Walters]

David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy
o2 and Apple are selling the new iPhone at £269 in the UK as they say
they will not subsidize customers.
Fair enough, no one wants subsidies.
It does raise some interesting questions though...
a) if it is not subsidised then why do I pay the same rate for phone
calls as if I'd received a free or subsidized hand set ?
b) If there is no subsidy then why can't I decide what network to use it
with ?

Both very good points, the more I see or read about this phone the less
I want one, especially as it appears O2 is going to roll out the
unlimited data and free wifi for its "normal" contracts.

Phil

[Ian Robinson]

Post by Phillip Walters
especially as it appears O2 is going to roll out the
unlimited data and free wifi for its "normal" contracts.

That seems fair to me.

Ian

[David Kennedy]

Post by David Kennedy
David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy
o2 and Apple are selling the new iPhone at £269 in the UK as they say
they will not subsidize customers.
Fair enough, no one wants subsidies.
It does raise some interesting questions though...
a) if it is not subsidised then why do I pay the same rate for phone
calls as if I'd received a free or subsidized hand set ?
b) If there is no subsidy then why can't I decide what network to use it
with ?

Both very good points, the more I see or read about this phone the less
I want one, especially as it appears O2 is going to roll out the
unlimited data and free wifi for its "normal" contracts.

I'd like the phone but I don't see why I should pay full price if I'm
then going to have to subsidize both O2 and Apple.

[Woody]

David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy
David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy
o2 and Apple are selling the new iPhone at £269 in the UK as they say
they will not subsidize customers.
Fair enough, no one wants subsidies.
It does raise some interesting questions though...
a) if it is not subsidised then why do I pay the same rate for phone
calls as if I'd received a free or subsidized hand set ?
b) If there is no subsidy then why can't I decide what network to use it
with ?

Both very good points, the more I see or read about this phone the less
I want one, especially as it appears O2 is going to roll out the
unlimited data and free wifi for its "normal" contracts.

I'd like the phone but I don't see why I should pay full price if I'm
then going to have to subsidize both O2 and Apple.

Having spent a while playing with the iPhone in the states I was keen on
getting one, and if they had had 16Gb ones I would have got it rather
than the iPod touch. However I wouldn't have used it as a phone, as it
is a lot more expensive (excluding the cost of the phone, which was the
same as the iPod anyway), as it is 200 minutes of calls for £35 on an 18
month contract and I have 750 minutes of calls for £20 on a 12 month
one.
Also the edge network is really only going to work in london so it isn't
any use to me, and the wifi isn't as useful.

Having been in the states for 2 weeks the iPhone makes a lot more sense
in that you can get an edge network most places, you can get wifi pretty
well everywhere free and 3G is just something they have in patches in
big cities.

But here, no edge (no o2 edge anyway), practically no free wifi
anywhere.

[David Kennedy]

Post by David Kennedy
David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy
David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy
o2 and Apple are selling the new iPhone at £269 in the UK as they say
they will not subsidize customers.
Fair enough, no one wants subsidies.
It does raise some interesting questions though...
a) if it is not subsidised then why do I pay the same rate for phone
calls as if I'd received a free or subsidized hand set ?
b) If there is no subsidy then why can't I decide what network to use it
with ?

Both very good points, the more I see or read about this phone the less
I want one, especially as it appears O2 is going to roll out the
unlimited data and free wifi for its "normal" contracts.

I'd like the phone but I don't see why I should pay full price if I'm
then going to have to subsidize both O2 and Apple.

Having spent a while playing with the iPhone in the states I was keen on
getting one, and if they had had 16Gb ones I would have got it rather
than the iPod touch. However I wouldn't have used it as a phone, as it
is a lot more expensive (excluding the cost of the phone, which was the
same as the iPod anyway), as it is 200 minutes of calls for £35 on an 18
month contract and I have 750 minutes of calls for £20 on a 12 month
one.
Also the edge network is really only going to work in london so it isn't
any use to me, and the wifi isn't as useful.
Having been in the states for 2 weeks the iPhone makes a lot more sense
in that you can get an edge network most places, you can get wifi pretty
well everywhere free and 3G is just something they have in patches in
big cities.
But here, no edge (no o2 edge anyway), practically no free wifi
anywhere.

It does - as far as I can see - everything that I need, at the moment
anyway, in a phone and, as I also need an iPod it seemed to be ideal.
I'm not wild about having to subsidize both O2 _and_ Apple [who get
enough cash from me anyway and what about the coffee machine ? is it
busted ?]

[Chris Ridd]

On 2007-09-21 08:01:13 +0100, David Kennedy

not wild about having to subsidize both O2 _and_ Apple [who get enough
cash from me anyway and what about the coffee machine ? is it busted ?]

Surely it is no coincidence that Microsoft are using coffee-related
documents in a lot of their Mac Office 2008 advertising :-)

Cheers,

Chris

[David Kennedy]

Post by Chris Ridd
On 2007-09-21 08:01:13 +0100, David Kennedy

not wild about having to subsidize both O2 _and_ Apple [who get enough
cash from me anyway and what about the coffee machine ? is it busted ?]

Surely it is no coincidence that Microsoft are using coffee-related
documents in a lot of their Mac Office 2008 advertising :-)

A-ha ! The plot thickens.

I suspect sabotage...

[Stephen2]

Post by David Kennedy
David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy
David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy
o2 and Apple are selling the new iPhone at £269 in the UK as they say
they will not subsidize customers.
Fair enough, no one wants subsidies.
It does raise some interesting questions though...
a) if it is not subsidised then why do I pay the same rate for phone
calls as if I'd received a free or subsidized hand set ?
b) If there is no subsidy then why can't I decide what network to use it
with ?

Both very good points, the more I see or read about this phone the less
I want one, especially as it appears O2 is going to roll out the
unlimited data and free wifi for its "normal" contracts.

I'd like the phone but I don't see why I should pay full price if I'm
then going to have to subsidize both O2 and Apple.

Having spent a while playing with the iPhone in the states I was keen on
getting one, and if they had had 16Gb ones I would have got it rather
than the iPod touch. However I wouldn't have used it as a phone, as it

AIUI you have to have a contract with a carrier before the phone is
activated for use. You cannot activate only the ipod functionality and
not the phone part. So you need a mobile contract to use it for
anything (unless you unlock it).

Post by David Kennedy
is a lot more expensive (excluding the cost of the phone, which was the
same as the iPod anyway), as it is 200 minutes of calls for £35 on an 18
month contract and I have 750 minutes of calls for £20 on a 12 month
one.
Also the edge network is really only going to work in london so it isn't
any use to me, and the wifi isn't as useful.
Having been in the states for 2 weeks the iPhone makes a lot more sense
in that you can get an edge network most places, you can get wifi pretty
well everywhere free and 3G is just something they have in patches in
big cities.
But here, no edge (no o2 edge anyway), practically no free wifi
anywhere.
--
Woody
www.alienrat.com

[Woody]

Post by Stephen2

Post by David Kennedy
David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy
David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy
o2 and Apple are selling the new iPhone at £269 in the UK as they say
they will not subsidize customers.
Fair enough, no one wants subsidies.
It does raise some interesting questions though...
a) if it is not subsidised then why do I pay the same rate for phone
calls as if I'd received a free or subsidized hand set ?
b) If there is no subsidy then why can't I decide what network to
use it with ?

Both very good points, the more I see or read about this phone the less
I want one, especially as it appears O2 is going to roll out the
unlimited data and free wifi for its "normal" contracts.

I'd like the phone but I don't see why I should pay full price if I'm
then going to have to subsidize both O2 and Apple.

Having spent a while playing with the iPhone in the states I was keen on
getting one, and if they had had 16Gb ones I would have got it rather
than the iPod touch. However I wouldn't have used it as a phone, as it

AIUI you have to have a contract with a carrier before the phone is
activated for use. You cannot activate only the ipod functionality and
not the phone part. So you need a mobile contract to use it for
anything (unless you unlock it).

Well, yes but there are free unlockers floating around at the moment,
which is why I was tempted to get one.

[Peter Lee]

David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy
David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy
o2 and Apple are selling the new iPhone at £269 in the UK as they say
they will not subsidize customers.
Fair enough, no one wants subsidies.
It does raise some interesting questions though...
a) if it is not subsidised then why do I pay the same rate for phone
calls as if I'd received a free or subsidized hand set ?
b) If there is no subsidy then why can't I decide what network to use it
with ?

Both very good points, the more I see or read about this phone the less
I want one, especially as it appears O2 is going to roll out the
unlimited data and free wifi for its "normal" contracts.

I'd like the phone but I don't see why I should pay full price if I'm
then going to have to subsidize both O2 and Apple.

[Peter Lee]

Post by David Kennedy
David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy
David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy
o2 and Apple are selling the new iPhone at £269 in the UK as they say
they will not subsidize customers.
Fair enough, no one wants subsidies.
It does raise some interesting questions though...
a) if it is not subsidised then why do I pay the same rate for phone
calls as if I'd received a free or subsidized hand set ?
b) If there is no subsidy then why can't I decide what network to use it
with ?

Both very good points, the more I see or read about this phone the less
I want one, especially as it appears O2 is going to roll out the
unlimited data and free wifi for its "normal" contracts.

I'd like the phone but I don't see why I should pay full price if I'm
then going to have to subsidize both O2 and Apple.

Oops - sent too soon!!

An iPhone , with an 18 month contract giving 'unlimited data', 200
minutes and 200 texts per month, and free access to 'The Cloud's WiFi
network will cost £899.

A Sony Ericsson P1i with the same sort of contract (except The Cloud)
would (according to the carphonewarehouse), costs £25/month for just the
calls & texts, and £99 for the phone, totalling £549. Add £3 per
megabyte for data, and monthly access to a WiFi provider (£8/mo?), and
you'll soon get up to £899.

Alternatively, an N95 on T-Mobile, with it's Web'n'Walk, on a FlexT plan
(450 minutes OR 900 texts (or 225/450) would cost a total over 18 months
of ..... wait for it....£850. And you still don't get any WiFi hotspots.

Looking at those figures, I'd happily pay an additional £50 to get the
WiFi access and an iPhone over the period.

If you want the next package up, it's £1079 for the iPhone and £895 for
the N75. So now you're paying £184 for the iPhone and the WiFi access
(which is priced at £126 for 18 months).

I still don't see it as being that much worse than any other deal around
at the moment. but YMMV!

Peter

[David Kennedy]

Post by Peter Lee

Post by David Kennedy
David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy
David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy
o2 and Apple are selling the new iPhone at £269 in the UK as they say
they will not subsidize customers.
Fair enough, no one wants subsidies.
It does raise some interesting questions though...
a) if it is not subsidised then why do I pay the same rate for phone
calls as if I'd received a free or subsidized hand set ?
b) If there is no subsidy then why can't I decide what network to use it
with ?

Both very good points, the more I see or read about this phone the less
I want one, especially as it appears O2 is going to roll out the
unlimited data and free wifi for its "normal" contracts.

I'd like the phone but I don't see why I should pay full price if I'm
then going to have to subsidize both O2 and Apple.

Oops - sent too soon!!
An iPhone , with an 18 month contract giving 'unlimited data', 200
minutes and 200 texts per month, and free access to 'The Cloud's WiFi
network will cost £899.
A Sony Ericsson P1i with the same sort of contract (except The Cloud)
would (according to the carphonewarehouse), costs £25/month for just the
calls & texts, and £99 for the phone, totalling £549. Add £3 per
megabyte for data, and monthly access to a WiFi provider (£8/mo?), and
you'll soon get up to £899.

Maybe but my point is that regardless, I want a combined phone _and_
iPod but am not prepared to pay out the thick end of a grand for it.

Post by Peter Lee
Alternatively, an N95 on T-Mobile, with it's Web'n'Walk, on a FlexT plan
(450 minutes OR 900 texts (or 225/450) would cost a total over 18 months
of ..... wait for it....£850. And you still don't get any WiFi hotspots.
Looking at those figures, I'd happily pay an additional £50 to get the
WiFi access and an iPhone over the period.

Happily ??? You would be happy knowing that O2 are charging you over the
odds for calls and that Apple are taking a cut ? Do you go into Tesco
and pay them 2 pence for their penny buns ?

Post by Peter Lee
If you want the next package up, it's £1079 for the iPhone and £895 for
the N75. So now you're paying £184 for the iPhone and the WiFi access
(which is priced at £126 for 18 months).
I still don't see it as being that much worse than any other deal around
at the moment. but YMMV!

My present deal is the T-Mobile Flex deal they had running in January
which gave me a Samsung D900 for 15 quid a month. Most months I don't
get close to using the full allowance.

Paying the bills myself, thrift is the word here.

If people are stupid enough to pay full price for a phone _and_ then pay
the full whack for calls as well then that's up to them. Likewise if
they want to pay Apple a royalty on every call they make...

Me, I'll give it a miss until I can get it sim free after Christmas.

[Ian Robinson]

Post by David Kennedy
If people are stupid enough to pay full price for a phone _and_ then pay
the full whack for calls as well then that's up to them. Likewise if
they want to pay Apple a royalty on every call they make...

Exactly. It's up to the people selling a product to set the prices at
what they think people will pay. If they're wrong then they won't sell.
Ian

[David Kennedy]

Post by David Kennedy
David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy
David Kennedy

Post by David Kennedy
o2 and Apple are selling the new iPhone at £269 in the UK as they say
they will not subsidize customers.
Fair enough, no one wants subsidies.
It does raise some interesting questions though...
a) if it is not subsidised then why do I pay the same rate for phone
calls as if I'd received a free or subsidized hand set ?
b) If there is no subsidy then why can't I decide what network to use it
with ?

Both very good points, the more I see or read about this phone the less
I want one, especially as it appears O2 is going to roll out the
unlimited data and free wifi for its "normal" contracts.

I'd like the phone but I don't see why I should pay full price if I'm
then going to have to subsidize both O2 and Apple.

Speak up man.