Discussion:
O2 Data and Wifi package for iPhone
(too old to reply)
Phillip Walters
2007-10-18 15:38:11 UTC
Permalink
O2 have come clean about exactly what they will allow on an iPhone
contract.
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/idg/uk/MacworldUk/~3/171573456/index.cfm

Phil
Woody
2007-10-18 17:19:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phillip Walters
O2 have come clean about exactly what they will allow on an iPhone
contract.
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/idg/uk/MacworldUk/~3/171573456/index.cfm
So 200MB is unlimited is it? I assumed they would do as much. I get
512MB on mine, and that isn't unlimited!

I love the word unlimited. Back in the old days it meant there were no
limits. Nowadays it seems to mean "we won't tell you what the limits
are"
--
Woody

www.alienrat.com
Phillip Walters
2007-10-18 17:26:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Woody
Post by Phillip Walters
O2 have come clean about exactly what they will allow on an iPhone
contract.
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/idg/uk/MacworldUk/~3/171573456/index.cfm
So 200MB is unlimited is it? I assumed they would do as much. I get
512MB on mine, and that isn't unlimited!
I love the word unlimited. Back in the old days it meant there were no
limits. Nowadays it seems to mean "we won't tell you what the limits
are"
If you get 512 MB with your existing package, you obviously know how
suitable that is for you, could you manage on 200MB ? I am trying to
ascertain how much real life surfing you can do with 200MB on an iPhone.
I have never had a phone with a large data package, never felt the need
due to the tiny screens and clunky interfaces.

Phil
Andy Fraser
2007-10-18 17:39:33 UTC
Permalink
Phillip Walters <***@nospamdsl.pipex.com> wrote:

[snip]
Post by Phillip Walters
If you get 512 MB with your existing package, you obviously know how
suitable that is for you, could you manage on 200MB ? I am trying to
ascertain how much real life surfing you can do with 200MB on an iPhone.
I have never had a phone with a large data package, never felt the need
due to the tiny screens and clunky interfaces.
I don't use data for the same reasons so don't know how much I'd
actually use. 200MB is 6.67MB per day assuming 30 days in a month. I may
not hit that but I planned to use the iPhone for email too and with the
announcement of an iPhone SDK maybe I'd use it for chat or other data
apps eventually so I could theoretically easily hit 200MB in a month.

I wonder if this has anything to do with the SDK news? If there are chat
and VoIP clients for iPhone then O2 could lose a fair bit of money from
lost calls and SMS.
--
Andy.
Phillip Walters
2007-10-18 17:43:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Fraser
[snip]
Post by Phillip Walters
If you get 512 MB with your existing package, you obviously know how
suitable that is for you, could you manage on 200MB ? I am trying to
ascertain how much real life surfing you can do with 200MB on an iPhone.
I have never had a phone with a large data package, never felt the need
due to the tiny screens and clunky interfaces.
I don't use data for the same reasons so don't know how much I'd
actually use. 200MB is 6.67MB per day assuming 30 days in a month. I may
not hit that but I planned to use the iPhone for email too and with the
announcement of an iPhone SDK maybe I'd use it for chat or other data
apps eventually so I could theoretically easily hit 200MB in a month.
I wonder if this has anything to do with the SDK news? If there are chat
and VoIP clients for iPhone then O2 could lose a fair bit of money from
lost calls and SMS.
The "unlimited" wifi via The Cloud has come down to 60 hours a month as
well as the data cut.
Andy Fraser
2007-10-18 17:46:21 UTC
Permalink
Phillip Walters <***@nospamdsl.pipex.com> wrote:

[snip]
Post by Phillip Walters
The "unlimited" wifi via The Cloud has come down to 60 hours a month as
well as the data cut.
For some reason that doesn't bug me as much as the 200MB data limit. In
my usual day to day life I'm only in a Cloud hotspot for about 15 mins a
day.
--
Andy.
Woody
2007-10-18 18:14:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phillip Walters
Post by Andy Fraser
[snip]
Post by Phillip Walters
If you get 512 MB with your existing package, you obviously know how
suitable that is for you, could you manage on 200MB ? I am trying to
ascertain how much real life surfing you can do with 200MB on an iPhone.
I have never had a phone with a large data package, never felt the need
due to the tiny screens and clunky interfaces.
I don't use data for the same reasons so don't know how much I'd
actually use. 200MB is 6.67MB per day assuming 30 days in a month. I may
not hit that but I planned to use the iPhone for email too and with the
announcement of an iPhone SDK maybe I'd use it for chat or other data
apps eventually so I could theoretically easily hit 200MB in a month.
I wonder if this has anything to do with the SDK news? If there are chat
and VoIP clients for iPhone then O2 could lose a fair bit of money from
lost calls and SMS.
The "unlimited" wifi via The Cloud has come down to 60 hours a month as
well as the data cut.
Which is a pain if you live near one.

Now I don't mind either as I don't get plan to get an iPhone, but I
really get annoyed about the way 'unlimited' is used.
What is wrong with saying 'Comes with 60 hours of wifi and 200MB of
data'? I mean they don't say unlimited calling minutes do they?
--
Woody

www.alienrat.com
Roger Merriman
2007-10-18 21:11:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Woody
Post by Phillip Walters
Post by Andy Fraser
[snip]
Post by Phillip Walters
If you get 512 MB with your existing package, you obviously know how
suitable that is for you, could you manage on 200MB ? I am trying to
ascertain how much real life surfing you can do with 200MB on an iPhone.
I have never had a phone with a large data package, never felt the need
due to the tiny screens and clunky interfaces.
I don't use data for the same reasons so don't know how much I'd
actually use. 200MB is 6.67MB per day assuming 30 days in a month. I may
not hit that but I planned to use the iPhone for email too and with the
announcement of an iPhone SDK maybe I'd use it for chat or other data
apps eventually so I could theoretically easily hit 200MB in a month.
I wonder if this has anything to do with the SDK news? If there are chat
and VoIP clients for iPhone then O2 could lose a fair bit of money from
lost calls and SMS.
The "unlimited" wifi via The Cloud has come down to 60 hours a month as
well as the data cut.
Which is a pain if you live near one.
Now I don't mind either as I don't get plan to get an iPhone, but I
really get annoyed about the way 'unlimited' is used.
What is wrong with saying 'Comes with 60 hours of wifi and 200MB of
data'? I mean they don't say unlimited calling minutes do they?
even t-mob's 1 or 2Gb fair use is hardly unlimited. but 200MB is taking
the piss mightly.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com
Phillip Walters
2007-10-25 10:56:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phillip Walters
Post by Andy Fraser
[snip]
Post by Phillip Walters
If you get 512 MB with your existing package, you obviously know how
suitable that is for you, could you manage on 200MB ? I am trying to
ascertain how much real life surfing you can do with 200MB on an iPhone.
I have never had a phone with a large data package, never felt the need
due to the tiny screens and clunky interfaces.
I don't use data for the same reasons so don't know how much I'd
actually use. 200MB is 6.67MB per day assuming 30 days in a month. I may
not hit that but I planned to use the iPhone for email too and with the
announcement of an iPhone SDK maybe I'd use it for chat or other data
apps eventually so I could theoretically easily hit 200MB in a month.
I wonder if this has anything to do with the SDK news? If there are chat
and VoIP clients for iPhone then O2 could lose a fair bit of money from
lost calls and SMS.
The "unlimited" wifi via The Cloud has come down to 60 hours a month as
well as the data cut.
A horrible thought has just occured to me, if O2 are allowing 60 hours
free wifi at The Cloud hotspots, will they try to include genuinely free
to everyone wifi such as the scheme just launched by McDonalds. If the
iPhone auto connects "seamlessly" to Cloud hotspots as O2 claim how will
they differentiate.

Phil
Chris Ridd
2007-10-18 18:01:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Fraser
I wonder if this has anything to do with the SDK news? If there are chat
and VoIP clients for iPhone then O2 could lose a fair bit of money from
lost calls and SMS.
Quite a lot of the current iPhone functionality happens over a data
connection, including things like the visual voicemail. So you may need
more data bandwidth than you think.

Cheers,

Chris
Phillip Walters
2007-10-18 18:11:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Ridd
Post by Andy Fraser
I wonder if this has anything to do with the SDK news? If there are chat
and VoIP clients for iPhone then O2 could lose a fair bit of money from
lost calls and SMS.
Quite a lot of the current iPhone functionality happens over a data
connection, including things like the visual voicemail. So you may need
more data bandwidth than you think.
Cheers,
Chris
The problem for me is I dont know how much data bandwidth I need, until
I have had an iPhone for a month or two and the novelty has worn off a
bit.

Phil
Woody
2007-10-18 18:18:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phillip Walters
Post by Chris Ridd
Post by Andy Fraser
I wonder if this has anything to do with the SDK news? If there are chat
and VoIP clients for iPhone then O2 could lose a fair bit of money from
lost calls and SMS.
Quite a lot of the current iPhone functionality happens over a data
connection, including things like the visual voicemail. So you may need
more data bandwidth than you think.
Cheers,
Chris
The problem for me is I dont know how much data bandwidth I need, until
I have had an iPhone for a month or two and the novelty has worn off a
bit.
It can go either way. When I got my contract, the first month or so (On
an n73, small screen, small keyboard) I didn't use much data, as I
didn't know what the data rate was, then the next few months,I was in
the hundreds of megs range as it was new and fun, then it went down to
about 50Meg/month for several months.
Then I got some applications I use, and now it is back up again. I
wouldn't want a contract with only 200MB on now.
--
Woody

www.alienrat.com
Ian Robinson
2007-10-18 18:31:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Woody
Then I got some applications I use, and now it is back up again. I
wouldn't want a contract with only 200MB on now.
Will they charge for anything over the included linit, or do they just
stop you using it?

Ian
--
Ian Robinson, Belfast, UK
<http://www.canicula.com/wp/>
Woody
2007-10-18 19:36:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Robinson
Post by Woody
Then I got some applications I use, and now it is back up again. I
wouldn't want a contract with only 200MB on now.
Will they charge for anything over the included linit, or do they just
stop you using it?
Well, presumably if they stop you from using it, your iPhone won't
actually work very well at anything at all iPhoney, apart from phoning
people.
--
Woody

www.alienrat.com
Sak Wathanasin
2007-10-19 09:10:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Robinson
Will they charge for anything over the included linit
Of course they will: they want you to. Just as banks these days don't stop
you from going overdrawn; they just charge you.
--
Sak Wathanasin
Network Analysis Limited
http://www.network-analysis.ltd.uk
Phillip Walters
2007-10-19 16:10:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Robinson
Post by Woody
Then I got some applications I use, and now it is back up again. I
wouldn't want a contract with only 200MB on now.
Will they charge for anything over the included linit, or do they just
stop you using it?
Ian
Probably futile, but I have just questioned this data package on their
online contact form, supposed to get a reply within 24 hours (Yeah)
Phil
Phillip Walters
2007-10-19 16:18:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phillip Walters
Post by Ian Robinson
Post by Woody
Then I got some applications I use, and now it is back up again. I
wouldn't want a contract with only 200MB on now.
Will they charge for anything over the included linit, or do they just
stop you using it?
Ian
Probably futile, but I have just questioned this data package on their
online contact form, supposed to get a reply within 24 hours (Yeah)
Phil
Hello O2 Customer,
Thanks for getting in touch. We're really excited about the iPhone - for
the most up to date information we recommend you visit our website
www.o2.co.uk/iphone
or www.apple.com/ukstore
If your query doesn't relate to the iPhone, please reply to this email
and we'll help you further.

Kind regards,
O2 Customer Service

At least their still excited

Phil
Andy Fraser
2007-10-19 17:22:57 UTC
Permalink
Phillip Walters <***@nospamdsl.pipex.com> wrote:

[snip]
Post by Phillip Walters
Hello O2 Customer,
Thanks for getting in touch. We're really excited about the iPhone - for
the most up to date information we recommend you visit our website
www.o2.co.uk/iphone
or www.apple.com/ukstore
If your query doesn't relate to the iPhone, please reply to this email
and we'll help you further.
Kind regards,
O2 Customer Service
So pretty standard response then.
Post by Phillip Walters
At least their still excited
Which is more than I am now.
--
Andy.
Andy Fraser
2007-10-18 18:33:00 UTC
Permalink
Chris Ridd <***@mac.com> wrote:

[snip]
Post by Chris Ridd
Quite a lot of the current iPhone functionality happens over a data
connection, including things like the visual voicemail. So you may need
more data bandwidth than you think.
Good point. I've always seen the iPhone as a data device that's also a
phone, mainly because Apple kept banging on about the data features.
Without a decent amount of data it's going to be a very expensive
device.
--
Andy.
Ben Shimmin
2007-10-18 18:54:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Ridd
Post by Andy Fraser
I wonder if this has anything to do with the SDK news? If there are chat
and VoIP clients for iPhone then O2 could lose a fair bit of money from
lost calls and SMS.
Quite a lot of the current iPhone functionality happens over a data
connection, including things like the visual voicemail. So you may need
more data bandwidth than you think.
To be honest, whilst I find these announcements (are they actual
announcements, or just glorified rumours? I'd like to see it in black
and white on O2's web site) disappointing, and this misuse of the word
`unlimited' has been annoying me for years, it isn't enough to stop me
buying an iPhone on the day it comes out. I will be using wifi (my own,
or The Cloud's, where 60 hours a month sounds like plenty to me) the
majority of the time, and EDGE only rarely -- probably to check email,
or perhaps a little mapping or web browsing if it's particularly urgent
or if I'm desperately bored and it's a convenient way of passing the time.
I expect 200MB would be just about adequate for that. I also wonder how
strict they are about these things -- if you use, say, 250MB, or 300MB,
or 400MB, is that `unfair usage'?

Mostly I want an iPhone because I actually need a new mobile which works
well as a telephone (my Sony-Ericsson, frankly, never has), and also because
I've had my 4G iPod for over three years and would like a slightly more
modern one, one which can do things like play videos, or, er, have a
colour screen.

b.
--
<***@bas.me.uk> <URL:http://bas.me.uk/>
`Nam et Hannibalis apud Romanos iam ante Sangunti excidium celeberrimum
nomen erat, et Scipionem Hannibal eo ipso quod adversus se dux potissimum
lectus esset praestantem virum credebat.' -- Titus Livius, _Ab Urbe Condita_
Roger Merriman
2007-10-18 21:11:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Fraser
[snip]
Post by Phillip Walters
If you get 512 MB with your existing package, you obviously know how
suitable that is for you, could you manage on 200MB ? I am trying to
ascertain how much real life surfing you can do with 200MB on an iPhone.
I have never had a phone with a large data package, never felt the need
due to the tiny screens and clunky interfaces.
I don't use data for the same reasons so don't know how much I'd
actually use. 200MB is 6.67MB per day assuming 30 days in a month. I may
not hit that but I planned to use the iPhone for email too and with the
announcement of an iPhone SDK maybe I'd use it for chat or other data
apps eventually so I could theoretically easily hit 200MB in a month.
i probably would hit that, with ease. with the nokia 770 + phone. only
need a few pic laden sites, or a attachment etc. or various mapping
software. or the odd utube, obvously on the move and out of wifi range.
Post by Andy Fraser
I wonder if this has anything to do with the SDK news? If there are chat
and VoIP clients for iPhone then O2 could lose a fair bit of money from
lost calls and SMS.
i suppose the question is will apple allow such things? ie how one gets
the apps signed. will they allow VoIP on the iphone or a email client on
the touch?

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com
Jochem Huhmann
2007-10-18 21:58:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Merriman
i suppose the question is will apple allow such things? ie how one gets
the apps signed. will they allow VoIP on the iphone or a email client on
the touch?
I don't know about VoiceIP on the iPhone but I'd be *very* surprised if
the touch wouldn't get all the apps of the iPhone soon anyway.


Jochem
--
"A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no
longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Roger Merriman
2007-10-18 22:24:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jochem Huhmann
Post by Roger Merriman
i suppose the question is will apple allow such things? ie how one gets
the apps signed. will they allow VoIP on the iphone or a email client on
the touch?
I don't know about VoiceIP on the iPhone but I'd be *very* surprised if
the touch wouldn't get all the apps of the iPhone soon anyway.
Jochem
would seem odd for apple to segment by software, the iphone/touch but
then allow 3rd parties to bridge the gap.

if so partically with the iphones package, the touch is looking more
better.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com
Jochem Huhmann
2007-10-18 23:26:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Merriman
Post by Jochem Huhmann
I don't know about VoiceIP on the iPhone but I'd be *very* surprised if
the touch wouldn't get all the apps of the iPhone soon anyway.
Jochem
would seem odd for apple to segment by software, the iphone/touch but
then allow 3rd parties to bridge the gap.
Yeah, it's not that writing an email app or a notepad is black magic or so.
Post by Roger Merriman
if so partically with the iphones package, the touch is looking more
better.
Seems so, yes.

Jochem
--
"A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no
longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Roger Merriman
2007-10-19 07:58:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jochem Huhmann
Post by Roger Merriman
Post by Jochem Huhmann
I don't know about VoiceIP on the iPhone but I'd be *very* surprised if
the touch wouldn't get all the apps of the iPhone soon anyway.
Jochem
would seem odd for apple to segment by software, the iphone/touch but
then allow 3rd parties to bridge the gap.
Yeah, it's not that writing an email app or a notepad is black magic or so.
no but depend how apple controls the signing of the apps.
Post by Jochem Huhmann
Post by Roger Merriman
if so partically with the iphones package, the touch is looking more
better.
Seems so, yes.
Jochem
roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com
Jochem Huhmann
2007-10-19 10:15:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Merriman
Post by Jochem Huhmann
Post by Roger Merriman
would seem odd for apple to segment by software, the iphone/touch but
then allow 3rd parties to bridge the gap.
Yeah, it's not that writing an email app or a notepad is black magic or so.
no but depend how apple controls the signing of the apps.
Hmm, first delivering the touch without a mail app and when people start
writing their own refusing to sign/install it *just* to promote iPhone
sales? Seems a bit too harsh even for Apple...


Jochem
--
"A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no
longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Roger Merriman
2007-10-22 09:09:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jochem Huhmann
Post by Roger Merriman
Post by Jochem Huhmann
Post by Roger Merriman
would seem odd for apple to segment by software, the iphone/touch but
then allow 3rd parties to bridge the gap.
Yeah, it's not that writing an email app or a notepad is black magic or so.
no but depend how apple controls the signing of the apps.
Hmm, first delivering the touch without a mail app and when people start
writing their own refusing to sign/install it *just* to promote iPhone
sales? Seems a bit too harsh even for Apple...
Jochem
seems odd to make the differnce more via software but then allow 3rd
parties to plug the gap.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com
Simon Slavin
2007-10-28 21:18:49 UTC
Permalink
On 19/10/2007, Roger Merriman wrote in message
Post by Roger Merriman
Post by Jochem Huhmann
Post by Roger Merriman
would seem odd for apple to segment by software, the iphone/touch but
then allow 3rd parties to bridge the gap.
Yeah, it's not that writing an email app or a notepad is black magic or so.
no but depend how apple controls the signing of the apps.
I can give you chapter and verse about how Apple control signing of apps
on Macintoshes. Basically, it's nothing you'd hate: apps can have any
number of signatures (including zero) and users tell their computers how
paranoid they should be about applications with no reliable signature.
Signature authorities (people who can authorise people to sign apps) are
not controlled by Apple: they are independent companies which each rely on
their own good reputation.

Simon.
--
http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk
Chris Ridd
2007-10-29 07:17:42 UTC
Permalink
On 2007-10-28 21:18:49 +0000, Simon Slavin
Post by Simon Slavin
On 19/10/2007, Roger Merriman wrote in message
Post by Roger Merriman
Post by Jochem Huhmann
Post by Roger Merriman
would seem odd for apple to segment by software, the iphone/touch but
then allow 3rd parties to bridge the gap.
Yeah, it's not that writing an email app or a notepad is black magic or so.
no but depend how apple controls the signing of the apps.
I can give you chapter and verse about how Apple control signing of apps
on Macintoshes. Basically, it's nothing you'd hate: apps can have any
number of signatures (including zero) and users tell their computers how
paranoid they should be about applications with no reliable signature.
Signature authorities (people who can authorise people to sign apps) are
not controlled by Apple: they are independent companies which each rely on
their own good reputation.
OK, except you may still need to arrange for the CA's root cert to be
stored in Leopard (the equivalent of Tiger's X509Anchors) otherwise it
won't really work.

Cheers,

Chris
Woody
2007-10-18 18:14:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phillip Walters
Post by Woody
Post by Phillip Walters
O2 have come clean about exactly what they will allow on an iPhone
contract.
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/idg/uk/MacworldUk/~3/171573456/index.cfm
So 200MB is unlimited is it? I assumed they would do as much. I get
512MB on mine, and that isn't unlimited!
I love the word unlimited. Back in the old days it meant there were no
limits. Nowadays it seems to mean "we won't tell you what the limits
are"
If you get 512 MB with your existing package, you obviously know how
suitable that is for you, could you manage on 200MB ?
On my current phone, yes I could (unless I wanted to use skype, which I
don't). Google maps use quite a bit, email/web browsing use a bit, but i
have a phone with a small screen and normal keyboard, so I don't use it
as much as I would something like an iPhone.

With an iPhone, I would consider it a bit of a problem, not so much that
I would be going past it all the time, but it would be something i would
be concerned that I could go over, and would be a limitation on using
it.

At the moment I get 750 minutes of talktime. I don't use that, the
highest I have ever gone was 490 minutes, but what it means is that I
never have to think about how much time I have, and it makes it much
nicer to use.
If I had 500 minutes, stats say I wouldn't go past it, but I would be
thinking about it.

200MB would certainly be in that catagory for me, and I would want to
know the costs of going over it.
--
Woody

www.alienrat.com
Andy Fraser
2007-10-18 17:34:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phillip Walters
O2 have come clean about exactly what they will allow on an iPhone
contract.
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/idg/uk/MacworldUk/~3/171573456/index.cfm
200MB is shit! How in the hell can that be described as anything like
"unlimited"? I have a good mind to call Trading Standards if they
persist in calling it "unlimited". The iPhone links on O2's web site
don't work so maybe they're going to stop calling it "unlimited".

Unless they increase that limit by a substantial amount I won't be
getting an iPhone.
--
Andy.
Phillip Walters
2007-10-18 17:41:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Fraser
Post by Phillip Walters
O2 have come clean about exactly what they will allow on an iPhone
contract.
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/idg/uk/MacworldUk/~3/171573456/index.cfm
200MB is shit! How in the hell can that be described as anything like
"unlimited"? I have a good mind to call Trading Standards if they
persist in calling it "unlimited". The iPhone links on O2's web site
don't work so maybe they're going to stop calling it "unlimited".
Unless they increase that limit by a substantial amount I won't be
getting an iPhone.
You used to be able to link to the iPhone tariff from the O2 home page,
the fact you cant now doesn't bode well.
Andy Fraser
2007-10-18 17:46:21 UTC
Permalink
Phillip Walters <***@nospamdsl.pipex.com> wrote:

[snip]
Post by Phillip Walters
You used to be able to link to the iPhone tariff from the O2 home page,
the fact you cant now doesn't bode well.
My thoughts exactly.
--
Andy.
Phillip Walters
2007-10-18 17:53:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Fraser
[snip]
Post by Phillip Walters
You used to be able to link to the iPhone tariff from the O2 home page,
the fact you cant now doesn't bode well.
My thoughts exactly.
This was the original tariff page,
Loading Image...
unfortunately cant remember what the asterisks referred to exactly, I
seem to remember 1400 web pages a day mentioned, however much that
eqates to in the real world.

Phil
Ian Robinson
2007-10-18 18:08:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phillip Walters
Post by Andy Fraser
My thoughts exactly.
This was the original tariff page,
http://www.geekanoids.co.uk/uploaded_images/O2-iPhoneTariffs-785265.png
The pages are still there:

<http://www.o2.co.uk/iPhone-Tariffs.html>
<http://www.o2.co.uk/iPhone-Overview.html>

Ian
--
Ian Robinson, Belfast, UK
<http://www.canicula.com/wp/>
Phillip Walters
2007-10-18 18:14:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Robinson
Post by Phillip Walters
Post by Andy Fraser
My thoughts exactly.
This was the original tariff page,
http://www.geekanoids.co.uk/uploaded_images/O2-iPhoneTariffs-785265.png
<http://www.o2.co.uk/iPhone-Tariffs.html>
<http://www.o2.co.uk/iPhone-Overview.html>
Ian
So they are, and the fair usage policy changes along with the wind
direction, an asterisk can be made to mean anything you like.

Phil
Andy Fraser
2007-10-18 18:33:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Robinson
Post by Phillip Walters
This was the original tariff page,
http://www.geekanoids.co.uk/uploaded_images/O2-iPhoneTariffs-785265.png
<http://www.o2.co.uk/iPhone-Tariffs.html>
<http://www.o2.co.uk/iPhone-Overview.html>
Can they be trusted though seeing as they're not linked to from the home
page?
--
Andy.
Woody
2007-10-18 18:14:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phillip Walters
Post by Andy Fraser
[snip]
Post by Phillip Walters
You used to be able to link to the iPhone tariff from the O2 home page,
the fact you cant now doesn't bode well.
My thoughts exactly.
This was the original tariff page,
http://www.geekanoids.co.uk/uploaded_images/O2-iPhoneTariffs-785265.png
unfortunately cant remember what the asterisks referred to exactly, I
seem to remember 1400 web pages a day mentioned, however much that
eqates to in the real world.
I hate those sort of things, is that like the google main web page or a
youtube page?
--
Woody

www.alienrat.com
David
2007-10-18 21:32:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Woody
I hate those sort of things, is that like the google main web page or a
youtube page?
What a great use of the word unlimited. I wonder if my wife would have
been happy if I had of vowed to limit myself to just her in accordance
of a fair usage policy.

I am beginning to think we are being blinded by the iphone while Apple
rape us of our ££. Even if you compare the US packages to the UK they
are miles away!

Having said that I get 30MB with orange and I never use it all but I
did think the big selling point is the unlimited data... so I can surf
freely, buy from the itunes store, check my 3 email accounts and
generally live online. £269 for the phone, £35 for unlimited data
limited to 200MB per month. 300 texts... and an 18 month lock in - it
does make me think just a little.

Surely there has to be a law against this unlimited data limited to
200mb per month rubbish ?

David
Woody
2007-10-18 21:53:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by David
Post by Woody
I hate those sort of things, is that like the google main web page or a
youtube page?
What a great use of the word unlimited. I wonder if my wife would have
been happy if I had of vowed to limit myself to just her in accordance
of a fair usage policy.
I am beginning to think we are being blinded by the iphone while Apple
rape us of our ££. Even if you compare the US packages to the UK they
are miles away!
Having said that I get 30MB with orange and I never use it all but I
did think the big selling point is the unlimited data...
Also your current phone probably doesn't connect to the net without
asking you.
--
Woody

www.alienrat.com
David
2007-10-18 22:11:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Woody
Post by David
Having said that I get 30MB with orange and I never use it all but I
did think the big selling point is the unlimited data...
Also your current phone probably doesn't connect to the net without
asking you.
Yes. I am depressed with all of this. I wish they had of just sold the
darn thing unlocked. 200MB is NOT unlimited by anyone's standards. 200
texts is nothing ! and £35 is steep for what we are getting. Couple
with this the cost of the iphone it does really make you think twice.

I also predict that once you are locked in to the 18 month contract
they will release the new version in Jan.

I am seriously thinking twice now.

David
Andy Fraser
2007-10-18 22:28:45 UTC
Permalink
David <***@hotmail.com> wrote:

[snip]
Post by David
Yes. I am depressed with all of this. I wish they had of just sold the
darn thing unlocked. 200MB is NOT unlimited by anyone's standards. 200
texts is nothing ! and £35 is steep for what we are getting. Couple
with this the cost of the iphone it does really make you think twice.
I also predict that once you are locked in to the 18 month contract
they will release the new version in Jan.
I am seriously thinking twice now.
Me too. I'll be in the US in two weeks. I'm now tempted to get an iPod
touch there, see how the 3rd party apps thing pans out and wait a year
to see what happens with the iPhone. It could well be a failure in the
UK if the tariff isn't right.
--
Andy.
Roger Merriman
2007-10-18 22:40:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Fraser
[snip]
Post by David
Yes. I am depressed with all of this. I wish they had of just sold the
darn thing unlocked. 200MB is NOT unlimited by anyone's standards. 200
texts is nothing ! and £35 is steep for what we are getting. Couple
with this the cost of the iphone it does really make you think twice.
I also predict that once you are locked in to the 18 month contract
they will release the new version in Jan.
I am seriously thinking twice now.
Me too. I'll be in the US in two weeks. I'm now tempted to get an iPod
touch there, see how the 3rd party apps thing pans out and wait a year
to see what happens with the iPhone. It could well be a failure in the
UK if the tariff isn't right.
yup funny thing really, a internet device needed a good data package.

if not it will be a hard sell. mind you thus far nothing on o2's site?

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com
Andy Fraser
2007-10-19 17:22:57 UTC
Permalink
Roger Merriman <***@wodger.demon.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]
Post by Roger Merriman
Post by Andy Fraser
Post by David
I am seriously thinking twice now.
Me too. I'll be in the US in two weeks. I'm now tempted to get an iPod
touch there, see how the 3rd party apps thing pans out and wait a year
to see what happens with the iPhone. It could well be a failure in the
UK if the tariff isn't right.
yup funny thing really, a internet device needed a good data package.
Yep. I know the networks have always put profit above the customer but
this is ridiculous.
Post by Roger Merriman
if not it will be a hard sell. mind you thus far nothing on o2's site?
Their iPhone page was up again this morning and still claiming
"unlimited" data. So was Apple's site. Apple link to O2's iPhone page so
it was technically still publically available (i.e. you don't need to
know the URL) last night.
--
Andy.
Phillip Walters
2007-10-19 17:29:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Fraser
[snip]
Post by Roger Merriman
Post by Andy Fraser
Post by David
I am seriously thinking twice now.
Me too. I'll be in the US in two weeks. I'm now tempted to get an iPod
touch there, see how the 3rd party apps thing pans out and wait a year
to see what happens with the iPhone. It could well be a failure in the
UK if the tariff isn't right.
yup funny thing really, a internet device needed a good data package.
Yep. I know the networks have always put profit above the customer but
this is ridiculous.
Post by Roger Merriman
if not it will be a hard sell. mind you thus far nothing on o2's site?
Their iPhone page was up again this morning and still claiming
"unlimited" data. So was Apple's site. Apple link to O2's iPhone page so
it was technically still publically available (i.e. you don't need to
know the URL) last night.
The iPhone link from the home page was not working last night but is
working now, description of data and wifi package is still as it was
pre- announcement. Unlimited with an asterisk, surely there must be a
copy of their fair usage policy as applied to iPhone somewhere.

Phil
Andy Fraser
2007-10-19 17:53:12 UTC
Permalink
Phillip Walters <***@nospamdsl.pipex.com> wrote:

[snip]
Post by Phillip Walters
The iPhone link from the home page was not working last night but is
working now, description of data and wifi package is still as it was
pre- announcement. Unlimited with an asterisk, surely there must be a
copy of their fair usage policy as applied to iPhone somewhere.
I've looked and I can't find anything. I did find this
<http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/0,39029453,49292876,00.htm> which seems
to confirm it.

For the good it'll do I've also contacted O2 asking for the FUP and/or
confirmation. I also mentioned that I won't buy the iPhone if it's true.
Maybe if they think they'll lose customers they'll rethink. Meanwhile,
back in the real world....
--
Andy.
Sak Wathanasin
2007-10-20 17:47:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Fraser
Their iPhone page was up again this morning and still claiming
"unlimited" data. So was Apple's site. Apple link to O2's iPhone page so
it was technically still publically available (i.e. you don't need to
know the URL) last night.
I guess they'd argue that it is "unlimited data" (they aren't dropping your
connection after N MB), but it isn't necessarily *free* unlimited data.
Wanna bet that their contract will be worded very carefully, something along
the lines of "you can download as much as you want; your contract includes
the 1st 200 MB/mth, additional charges apply afterwards"?
--
Sak Wathanasin
Network Analysis Limited
http://www.network-analysis.ltd.uk
Phillip Walters
2007-10-20 18:29:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sak Wathanasin
Post by Andy Fraser
Their iPhone page was up again this morning and still claiming
"unlimited" data. So was Apple's site. Apple link to O2's iPhone page so
it was technically still publically available (i.e. you don't need to
know the URL) last night.
I guess they'd argue that it is "unlimited data" (they aren't dropping your
connection after N MB), but it isn't necessarily *free* unlimited data.
Wanna bet that their contract will be worded very carefully, something along
the lines of "you can download as much as you want; your contract includes
the 1st 200 MB/mth, additional charges apply afterwards"?
It gets even more complicated if this email, which it is claimed comes
from O2 is correct, it sounds as if they are trying to combine the data
and wifi elements. I found this on macrumours forum.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=369112

Thank you for your email below. I am responding on behalf of Matthew
Key.

You can browse the web on an iPhone in three different ways; on the O2
cellular network, over The Cloud WiFi hotspots and on any open
home/work/public wifi connection.

The figure Matthew referred to on the 18th September was the maximum
utilisation of the first two of these put together - clearly any use
through home/work wifi would be additional.

Just explaining the exact numbers, the iPhone tariff includes a fair
usage limit of 200MB on the O2 network and 60 hours on The Cloud per
month. In our calculations on typical page size and usage this combined
would equate to 1400 pages per day.

Last Thursday's announced flat rate data bolt-on does not include the
Wi-Fi element which is why these figures are different.

I hope that makes sense but please don't hesitate to contact me if you
have any further questions.

Phil
Roger Merriman
2007-10-22 09:09:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Fraser
[snip]
Post by Roger Merriman
Post by Andy Fraser
Post by David
I am seriously thinking twice now.
Me too. I'll be in the US in two weeks. I'm now tempted to get an iPod
touch there, see how the 3rd party apps thing pans out and wait a year
to see what happens with the iPhone. It could well be a failure in the
UK if the tariff isn't right.
yup funny thing really, a internet device needed a good data package.
Yep. I know the networks have always put profit above the customer but
this is ridiculous.
quite partically as others are not so stingy.
Post by Andy Fraser
Post by Roger Merriman
if not it will be a hard sell. mind you thus far nothing on o2's site?
Their iPhone page was up again this morning and still claiming
"unlimited" data. So was Apple's site. Apple link to O2's iPhone page so
it was technically still publically available (i.e. you don't need to
know the URL) last night.
still there now, i think they would have job to make 200mb sound like
"fair use" on a device like that, that has a built in youtube player
etc.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com
Andy Fraser
2007-10-22 17:32:47 UTC
Permalink
Roger Merriman <***@wodger.demon.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]
Post by Roger Merriman
Post by Andy Fraser
Post by Roger Merriman
yup funny thing really, a internet device needed a good data package.
Yep. I know the networks have always put profit above the customer but
this is ridiculous.
quite partically as others are not so stingy.
True. I was a bit worried when O2 were announced as the exclusive
distributor because they've always seemed the most expensive for data
when I've checked. I figured that maybe things would be alright seeing
as how the iPhone is an Internet device, especially when they announced
"unlimited" data. I didn't actually think for a second that that
actually meant unlimited but I though it'd be a lot more than they're
offering after all they did say 1,400 pages per day. So they meant 1,400
very small pages per day.

[snip]
Post by Roger Merriman
still there now, i think they would have job to make 200mb sound like
"fair use" on a device like that, that has a built in youtube player
etc.
I was thinking about that earlier. I'm not much of a YouTube user but if
I were I'd be very excited that I could view YouTube videos everywhere.
After reading this thread I'd now not be using a feature that Apple
pushed as a benefit because I'd be worried about potentially being
charged a lot extra (or some other penalty) for using that feature.
--
Andy.
Roger Merriman
2007-10-25 14:54:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Fraser
[snip]
Post by Roger Merriman
Post by Andy Fraser
Post by Roger Merriman
yup funny thing really, a internet device needed a good data package.
Yep. I know the networks have always put profit above the customer but
this is ridiculous.
quite partically as others are not so stingy.
True. I was a bit worried when O2 were announced as the exclusive
distributor because they've always seemed the most expensive for data
when I've checked. I figured that maybe things would be alright seeing
as how the iPhone is an Internet device, especially when they announced
"unlimited" data. I didn't actually think for a second that that
actually meant unlimited but I though it'd be a lot more than they're
offering after all they did say 1,400 pages per day. So they meant 1,400
very small pages per day.
i still think that anyone trying to defend 200mb as unlimited. would
have one hell of a job.

200mb might just be as near as damb it be unlimited for some phones, but
not the iphone, with a proper browser, email, youtube, & itunes.
Post by Andy Fraser
[snip]
Post by Roger Merriman
still there now, i think they would have job to make 200mb sound like
"fair use" on a device like that, that has a built in youtube player
etc.
I was thinking about that earlier. I'm not much of a YouTube user but if
I were I'd be very excited that I could view YouTube videos everywhere.
After reading this thread I'd now not be using a feature that Apple
pushed as a benefit because I'd be worried about potentially being
charged a lot extra (or some other penalty) for using that feature.
that i think is the thing, the iphone is desgined from the get go to use
data. video's, music etc. it's not desgined for a capped system.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com
Phillip Allen
2007-10-25 22:13:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Merriman
i still think that anyone trying to defend 200mb as unlimited. would
have one hell of a job.
200mb might just be as near as damb it be unlimited for some phones, but
not the iphone, with a proper browser, email, youtube, & itunes.
Post by Andy Fraser
Post by Roger Merriman
still there now, i think they would have job to make 200mb sound like
"fair use" on a device like that, that has a built in youtube player
etc.
I was thinking about that earlier. I'm not much of a YouTube user but if
I were I'd be very excited that I could view YouTube videos everywhere.
After reading this thread I'd now not be using a feature that Apple
pushed as a benefit because I'd be worried about potentially being
charged a lot extra (or some other penalty) for using that feature.
that i think is the thing, the iphone is desgined from the get go to use
data. video's, music etc. it's not desgined for a capped system.
I've finally snapped over stuff like this and emailed a lengthy
complaint to my local Trading Standards Office concerning the
deliberately misleading use of the terms 'unlimited' and 'fair' (usage)
in the context of this device, and the wanton lack of accurate
information from O2 to consumers about the crippling effect of these
tariffs on normal iPhone usage (I reckon you'll get about 2-3 hours of
YouTube per month out of 200MB - it's about 1.5MB per minute, no?).

Quite probably a futile rant, but we'll see.

I *hate* these guys!* </indiana jones>


*advertizis, natch.
--
abstract painter to remove writer's block (6)
Andy Fraser
2007-10-25 22:43:55 UTC
Permalink
Phillip Allen <***@rothkomonkeyheavendotcodotuk.null> wrote:

[snip]
Post by Phillip Allen
I've finally snapped over stuff like this and emailed a lengthy
complaint to my local Trading Standards Office concerning the
deliberately misleading use of the terms 'unlimited' and 'fair' (usage)
in the context of this device, and the wanton lack of accurate
information from O2 to consumers about the crippling effect of these
tariffs on normal iPhone usage (I reckon you'll get about 2-3 hours of
YouTube per month out of 200MB - it's about 1.5MB per minute, no?).
Quite probably a futile rant, but we'll see.
For the good it'll do I'm planning to do the same closer to the launch.
People I know think I'm mad and should just leave it but I think that
that's how companies get away with screwing people. I think we need to
complain more as a nation.
--
Andy.
Roger Merriman
2007-10-27 13:39:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Fraser
[snip]
Post by Phillip Allen
I've finally snapped over stuff like this and emailed a lengthy
complaint to my local Trading Standards Office concerning the
deliberately misleading use of the terms 'unlimited' and 'fair' (usage)
in the context of this device, and the wanton lack of accurate
information from O2 to consumers about the crippling effect of these
tariffs on normal iPhone usage (I reckon you'll get about 2-3 hours of
YouTube per month out of 200MB - it's about 1.5MB per minute, no?).
Quite probably a futile rant, but we'll see.
For the good it'll do I'm planning to do the same closer to the launch.
People I know think I'm mad and should just leave it but I think that
that's how companies get away with screwing people. I think we need to
complain more as a nation.
or with your wallet. thats what put sa off.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com
Phillip Walters
2007-10-27 13:42:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phillip Allen
Post by Roger Merriman
i still think that anyone trying to defend 200mb as unlimited. would
have one hell of a job.
200mb might just be as near as damb it be unlimited for some phones, but
not the iphone, with a proper browser, email, youtube, & itunes.
Post by Andy Fraser
Post by Roger Merriman
still there now, i think they would have job to make 200mb sound like
"fair use" on a device like that, that has a built in youtube player
etc.
I was thinking about that earlier. I'm not much of a YouTube user but if
I were I'd be very excited that I could view YouTube videos everywhere.
After reading this thread I'd now not be using a feature that Apple
pushed as a benefit because I'd be worried about potentially being
charged a lot extra (or some other penalty) for using that feature.
that i think is the thing, the iphone is desgined from the get go to use
data. video's, music etc. it's not desgined for a capped system.
I've finally snapped over stuff like this and emailed a lengthy
complaint to my local Trading Standards Office concerning the
deliberately misleading use of the terms 'unlimited' and 'fair' (usage)
in the context of this device, and the wanton lack of accurate
information from O2 to consumers about the crippling effect of these
tariffs on normal iPhone usage (I reckon you'll get about 2-3 hours of
YouTube per month out of 200MB - it's about 1.5MB per minute, no?).
Quite probably a futile rant, but we'll see.
I *hate* these guys!* </indiana jones>
*advertizis, natch.
I did the same thing yesterday
Phillip Walters
2007-10-30 16:19:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phillip Allen
I've finally snapped over stuff like this and emailed a lengthy
complaint to my local Trading Standards Office concerning the
deliberately misleading use of the terms 'unlimited' and 'fair' (usage)
in the context of this device, and the wanton lack of accurate
information from O2 to consumers about the crippling effect of these
tariffs on normal iPhone usage (I reckon you'll get about 2-3 hours of
YouTube per month out of 200MB - it's about 1.5MB per minute, no?).
Quite probably a futile rant, but we'll see.
Have you had a reply from Trading Standards yet ? I have just been
reading the O2 data bolt on terms, they call it unlimited, then mention
200MB, and also reserve the right to put you on their webmax tariff if
they think you are abusing the 200MB limit. The Webmax tariff is also
described as unlimited but with a 3GB cap.
http://shop.o2.co.uk/boltonTerms?boltonId=6021

Phil
Phillip Allen
2007-11-02 12:06:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phillip Walters
Post by Phillip Allen
I've finally snapped over stuff like this and emailed a lengthy
complaint to my local Trading Standards Office concerning the
deliberately misleading use of the terms 'unlimited' and 'fair' (usage)
in the context of this device, and the wanton lack of accurate
information from O2 to consumers about the crippling effect of these
tariffs on normal iPhone usage (I reckon you'll get about 2-3 hours of
YouTube per month out of 200MB - it's about 1.5MB per minute, no?).
Quite probably a futile rant, but we'll see.
Have you had a reply from Trading Standards yet ? I have just been
reading the O2 data bolt on terms, they call it unlimited, then mention
200MB, and also reserve the right to put you on their webmax tariff if
they think you are abusing the 200MB limit. The Webmax tariff is also
described as unlimited but with a 3GB cap.
http://shop.o2.co.uk/boltonTerms?boltonId=6021
No reply at all, I'm afraid - not even an acknolwedgment. I'm beginning
to think my local trading standards office doesn't actually use the
email address they advertise, which is a bit duff. I'll send another
email asking for an acknowledgment and give it a few days.

The dual meaning of 'unlimited' you just pointed out makes it even less
meaningful. Utterly preposterous.
--
abstract painter to remove writer's block (6)
Phillip Walters
2007-11-02 12:27:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phillip Allen
Post by Phillip Walters
Post by Phillip Allen
I've finally snapped over stuff like this and emailed a lengthy
complaint to my local Trading Standards Office concerning the
deliberately misleading use of the terms 'unlimited' and 'fair' (usage)
in the context of this device, and the wanton lack of accurate
information from O2 to consumers about the crippling effect of these
tariffs on normal iPhone usage (I reckon you'll get about 2-3 hours of
YouTube per month out of 200MB - it's about 1.5MB per minute, no?).
Quite probably a futile rant, but we'll see.
Have you had a reply from Trading Standards yet ? I have just been
reading the O2 data bolt on terms, they call it unlimited, then mention
200MB, and also reserve the right to put you on their webmax tariff if
they think you are abusing the 200MB limit. The Webmax tariff is also
described as unlimited but with a 3GB cap.
http://shop.o2.co.uk/boltonTerms?boltonId=6021
No reply at all, I'm afraid - not even an acknolwedgment. I'm beginning
to think my local trading standards office doesn't actually use the
email address they advertise, which is a bit duff. I'll send another
email asking for an acknowledgment and give it a few days.
The dual meaning of 'unlimited' you just pointed out makes it even less
meaningful. Utterly preposterous.
I have not had an acknowledgement from my TS office either.
Peter Ceresole
2007-11-02 12:44:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phillip Allen
No reply at all, I'm afraid - not even an acknolwedgment. I'm beginning
to think my local trading standards office doesn't actually use the
email address they advertise, which is a bit duff. I'll send another
email asking for an acknowledgment and give it a few days.
Sending a *letter* (as in dead trees, snails) usually works better. And
not just with Trading sStandards...
--
Peter
Phillip Allen
2007-11-03 02:35:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Ceresole
Post by Phillip Allen
No reply at all, I'm afraid - not even an acknolwedgment. I'm beginning
to think my local trading standards office doesn't actually use the
email address they advertise, which is a bit duff. I'll send another
email asking for an acknowledgment and give it a few days.
Sending a *letter* (as in dead trees, snails) usually works better. And
not just with Trading sStandards...
True enough. Armed with this knowledge, I emailed again simply to ask
for an acknowledgment of receipt, explaining that the continuing absence
of such would lead me to conclude that the email address was
non-functional and I would consequently end up contributing to the
culling of another forest in order to satisfy myself that I had
succeeded in communicating my report. I received an almost immediate
reply informing me that my email had indeed been received a week
earlier. The reply went on to inform me (to add to my guilt at troubling
the office with *two* non-critical emails) that local TS staff were busy
dealing with dodgy fireworks - hence the lack of a previous
acknowledgment - and would get back to me as soon as real world
practicalities allow.

I knew all this would turn out to appear like a psycho internet user's
equivalent of the 'Outraged from Putney' letter to the editor of the
Daily Mail. Dommage.
--
abstract painter to remove writer's block (6)
Chris Ridd
2007-11-03 05:29:36 UTC
Permalink
On 2007-11-03 02:35:22 +0000,
Post by Phillip Allen
I knew all this would turn out to appear like a psycho internet user's
equivalent of the 'Outraged from Putney' letter to the editor of the
Daily Mail. Dommage.
Does Leopard's mail have a template with green text?

Cheers,

Chris
Roger Merriman
2007-11-03 08:33:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Ridd
On 2007-11-03 02:35:22 +0000,
Post by Phillip Allen
I knew all this would turn out to appear like a psycho internet user's
equivalent of the 'Outraged from Putney' letter to the editor of the
Daily Mail. Dommage.
Does Leopard's mail have a template with green text?
Cheers,
Chris
can't find any, but it's horrible in there!

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com
Simon Slavin
2007-11-05 21:02:49 UTC
Permalink
On 02/11/2007, Phillip Allen wrote in message
Post by Phillip Allen
Post by Phillip Walters
http://shop.o2.co.uk/boltonTerms?boltonId=6021
The dual meaning of 'unlimited' you just pointed out makes it even less
meaningful. Utterly preposterous.
The terms on that page do not apply to the iPhone contract (which is a
special non-standard contract). These ones, however, do:

<http://www.o2.co.uk/assets/O2HybridNav/Static-files/iphone/iPhone-
FAQs.html>

As we all know by now, O2 have lifted their original weasel-wording on
'unlimited' and substituted a few completely reasonable restrictions: no
specific numeric limits, but don't use it as a server, in a peer-to-peer
network, or to tether another internet device. I find that a great
improvement and am very happy about it.

Simon.
--
http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk
Chris Ridd
2007-11-06 06:38:23 UTC
Permalink
On 2007-11-05 21:02:49 +0000, Simon Slavin
Post by Simon Slavin
As we all know by now, O2 have lifted their original weasel-wording on
'unlimited' and substituted a few completely reasonable restrictions: no
specific numeric limits, but don't use it as a server, in a peer-to-peer
network, or to tether another internet device. I find that a great
improvement and am very happy about it.
Skype is effectively a peer-to-peer network isn't it? Hm.

Cheers,

Chris
Roger Merriman
2007-11-06 06:50:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Ridd
On 2007-11-05 21:02:49 +0000, Simon Slavin
Post by Simon Slavin
As we all know by now, O2 have lifted their original weasel-wording on
'unlimited' and substituted a few completely reasonable restrictions: no
specific numeric limits, but don't use it as a server, in a peer-to-peer
network, or to tether another internet device. I find that a great
improvement and am very happy about it.
Skype is effectively a peer-to-peer network isn't it? Hm.
yes. as is a fair number of others no dought, pre coffee. so brain not
working.
Post by Chris Ridd
Cheers,
Chris
roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com
Chris Ridd
2007-11-06 07:31:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Merriman
Post by Chris Ridd
On 2007-11-05 21:02:49 +0000, Simon Slavin
Post by Simon Slavin
As we all know by now, O2 have lifted their original weasel-wording on
'unlimited' and substituted a few completely reasonable restrictions: no
specific numeric limits, but don't use it as a server, in a peer-to-peer
network, or to tether another internet device. I find that a great
improvement and am very happy about it.
Skype is effectively a peer-to-peer network isn't it? Hm.
yes. as is a fair number of others no dought, pre coffee. so brain not
working.
It is a bit academic at the moment given the lack of official iPhone
SDK, but it does look like O2 are deliberately preventing you from
running Skype. Are they allowed to do that?

Cheers,

Chris
Woody
2007-11-06 07:39:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Ridd
Post by Roger Merriman
Post by Chris Ridd
On 2007-11-05 21:02:49 +0000, Simon Slavin
Post by Simon Slavin
As we all know by now, O2 have lifted their original weasel-wording on
'unlimited' and substituted a few completely reasonable restrictions: no
specific numeric limits, but don't use it as a server, in a peer-to-peer
network, or to tether another internet device. I find that a great
improvement and am very happy about it.
Skype is effectively a peer-to-peer network isn't it? Hm.
yes. as is a fair number of others no dought, pre coffee. so brain not
working.
It is a bit academic at the moment given the lack of official iPhone
SDK, but it does look like O2 are deliberately preventing you from
running Skype. Are they allowed to do that?
It is their network, I am sure they can do what they want with it.

I doubt that they have the bandwidth for people running skype - they
never had much of a data market before.
--
Woody

www.alienrat.com
Chris Ridd
2007-11-06 07:48:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Woody
Post by Chris Ridd
It is a bit academic at the moment given the lack of official iPhone
SDK, but it does look like O2 are deliberately preventing you from
running Skype. Are they allowed to do that?
It is their network, I am sure they can do what they want with it.
It *is* their network, but I'm not sure they're allowed to restrict
what is carried over it. BT aren't allowed to prevent VoIP over their
phone lines etc. Of course the usual response here of "choose another
network provider which *will* let you do this" doesn't work because
no-one else supports the iPhone.

If they are allowed to restrict what they carry, don't they become in
some way responsible for the content? I'm not sure they'd want that.
Post by Woody
I doubt that they have the bandwidth for people running skype - they
never had much of a data market before.
That's probably true, and that may be all they're trying to protect.

Cheers,

Chris
Woody
2007-11-06 07:55:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Ridd
Post by Woody
Post by Chris Ridd
It is a bit academic at the moment given the lack of official iPhone
SDK, but it does look like O2 are deliberately preventing you from
running Skype. Are they allowed to do that?
It is their network, I am sure they can do what they want with it.
It *is* their network, but I'm not sure they're allowed to restrict
what is carried over it. BT aren't allowed to prevent VoIP over their
phone lines etc. Of course the usual response here of "choose another
network provider which *will* let you do this" doesn't work because
no-one else supports the iPhone.
This is true, but by any sort of comparison, the iPhone is just another
phone. Having said that, it is also a phone that doesn't have skype, so
it is fairly academic.
Post by Chris Ridd
If they are allowed to restrict what they carry, don't they become in
some way responsible for the content? I'm not sure they'd want that.
But ISPs routinely do data shaping but still maintain that they aren't
responsible for what they carry, so I don't see the difference with a
network provider.
Post by Chris Ridd
Post by Woody
I doubt that they have the bandwidth for people running skype - they
never had much of a data market before.
That's probably true, and that may be all they're trying to protect.
It may be.

I haven't tried skype on the phone yet, even though I have it on my
phone (and it is available for use, if not promoted). Having said that,
I don't have so much reason, as I have a lot of talk time anyway.
--
Woody

www.alienrat.com
Chris Ridd
2007-11-06 08:05:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Woody
Post by Chris Ridd
Post by Woody
Post by Chris Ridd
It is a bit academic at the moment given the lack of official iPhone
SDK, but it does look like O2 are deliberately preventing you from
running Skype. Are they allowed to do that?
It is their network, I am sure they can do what they want with it.
It *is* their network, but I'm not sure they're allowed to restrict
what is carried over it. BT aren't allowed to prevent VoIP over their
phone lines etc. Of course the usual response here of "choose another
network provider which *will* let you do this" doesn't work because
no-one else supports the iPhone.
This is true, but by any sort of comparison, the iPhone is just another
phone. Having said that, it is also a phone that doesn't have skype, so
it is fairly academic.
Yes, currently. I can't imagine wanting to run any other kind of P2P
software on a phone though :-)
Post by Woody
Post by Chris Ridd
If they are allowed to restrict what they carry, don't they become in
some way responsible for the content? I'm not sure they'd want that.
But ISPs routinely do data shaping but still maintain that they aren't
responsible for what they carry, so I don't see the difference with a
network provider.
Data shaping doesn't drop one type of data to 0 though.

Cheers,

Chris
Woody
2007-11-06 18:09:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Ridd
Post by Woody
Post by Chris Ridd
Post by Woody
Post by Chris Ridd
It is a bit academic at the moment given the lack of official iPhone
SDK, but it does look like O2 are deliberately preventing you from
running Skype. Are they allowed to do that?
It is their network, I am sure they can do what they want with it.
It *is* their network, but I'm not sure they're allowed to restrict
what is carried over it. BT aren't allowed to prevent VoIP over their
phone lines etc. Of course the usual response here of "choose another
network provider which *will* let you do this" doesn't work because
no-one else supports the iPhone.
This is true, but by any sort of comparison, the iPhone is just another
phone. Having said that, it is also a phone that doesn't have skype, so
it is fairly academic.
Yes, currently. I can't imagine wanting to run any other kind of P2P
software on a phone though :-)
I can't think of any off hand, unless you were using the phone as a
modem (and if you are doing that on O2, you are probably onto a lost
cause).
Post by Chris Ridd
Post by Woody
Post by Chris Ridd
If they are allowed to restrict what they carry, don't they become in
some way responsible for the content? I'm not sure they'd want that.
But ISPs routinely do data shaping but still maintain that they aren't
responsible for what they carry, so I don't see the difference with a
network provider.
Data shaping doesn't drop one type of data to 0 though.
You obviously haven't used 'Data shaping extreme (tm)'.
--
Woody

www.alienrat.com
Roger Merriman
2007-11-06 08:36:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Ridd
Post by Woody
Post by Chris Ridd
It is a bit academic at the moment given the lack of official iPhone
SDK, but it does look like O2 are deliberately preventing you from
running Skype. Are they allowed to do that?
It is their network, I am sure they can do what they want with it.
It *is* their network, but I'm not sure they're allowed to restrict
what is carried over it. BT aren't allowed to prevent VoIP over their
phone lines etc. Of course the usual response here of "choose another
network provider which *will* let you do this" doesn't work because
no-one else supports the iPhone.
t-mob restric or at least i can't get the IM to run over a phone
conection on my nokia 770, ie via Giam so yahoo/msn/aol-.mac etc
Post by Chris Ridd
If they are allowed to restrict what they carry, don't they become in
some way responsible for the content? I'm not sure they'd want that.
Post by Woody
I doubt that they have the bandwidth for people running skype - they
never had much of a data market before.
That's probably true, and that may be all they're trying to protect.
Cheers,
Chris
roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com
Chris Ridd
2007-11-06 09:22:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Merriman
t-mob restric or at least i can't get the IM to run over a phone
conection on my nokia 770, ie via Giam so yahoo/msn/aol-.mac etc
The more I read about how horrendously the mobile phone operators work,
the more and more attractive the iPod Touch seems!

Cheers,

Chris
Jim
2007-11-06 09:34:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Ridd
Post by Roger Merriman
t-mob restric or at least i can't get the IM to run over a phone
conection on my nokia 770, ie via Giam so yahoo/msn/aol-.mac etc
The more I read about how horrendously the mobile phone operators work,
the more and more attractive the iPod Touch seems!
I've said it before but I'll say it again: the iPod touch is one of the few
devices I've ever bought that has completely failed to disappoint me in any
way whatsoever. I've not even Jailbroken it, partly because I don't want to
get used to features that will get removed at some point, but mostly because
there's nothing that Jailbreaking gives me that I really want.

It's a lovely, lovely device.

Jim
--
http://www.ursaMinorBeta.co.uk
ARDCRONY (n.)
A remote acquaintance passed off as 'a very good friend of mine' by someone
trying to impress people.
Chris Ridd
2007-11-06 10:46:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by Chris Ridd
Post by Roger Merriman
t-mob restric or at least i can't get the IM to run over a phone
conection on my nokia 770, ie via Giam so yahoo/msn/aol-.mac etc
The more I read about how horrendously the mobile phone operators work,
the more and more attractive the iPod Touch seems!
I've said it before but I'll say it again: the iPod touch is one of the few
devices I've ever bought that has completely failed to disappoint me in any
way whatsoever. I've not even Jailbroken it, partly because I don't want to
get used to features that will get removed at some point, but mostly because
there's nothing that Jailbreaking gives me that I really want.
It's a lovely, lovely device.
It just can't hold enough stuff.

Cheers,

Chris
Jochem Huhmann
2007-11-06 13:08:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
I've said it before but I'll say it again: the iPod touch is one of the few
devices I've ever bought that has completely failed to disappoint me in any
way whatsoever. I've not even Jailbroken it, partly because I don't want to
get used to features that will get removed at some point, but mostly because
there's nothing that Jailbreaking gives me that I really want.
Jailbreaking gives you the ability to install a patch that fixes the
TIFF exploit which allows anyone who puts up a crafted TIFF file on a
website you visit to completely take over your touch...


Jochem
--
"A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no
longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Jim
2007-11-06 13:17:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jochem Huhmann
Post by Jim
I've said it before but I'll say it again: the iPod touch is one of the few
devices I've ever bought that has completely failed to disappoint me in any
way whatsoever. I've not even Jailbroken it, partly because I don't want to
get used to features that will get removed at some point, but mostly because
there's nothing that Jailbreaking gives me that I really want.
Jailbreaking gives you the ability to install a patch that fixes the
TIFF exploit which allows anyone who puts up a crafted TIFF file on a
website you visit to completely take over your touch...
True, but iPhone software 1.1.2 is close at hand and specifically fixes
this, so I'd imagine an iPod Touch update will be close behind.

Jim
--
http://www.ursaMinorBeta.co.uk
HAPPLE (vb.)
To annoy people by finishing their sentences for them and then telling them
what they really meant to say.
Chris Ridd
2007-11-06 13:54:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
True, but iPhone software 1.1.2 is close at hand and specifically fixes
this, so I'd imagine an iPod Touch update will be close behind.
I was rather surprised to hear from MacNN that this impending update
supported "non-Phoenician" languages. I can only think they meant
non-Latin and their thesaurus has gone mad.

<http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/11/05/uk.iphone.to.have.112/>

Cheers,

Chris
Richard Tobin
2007-11-06 19:56:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Ridd
I was rather surprised to hear from MacNN that this impending update
supported "non-Phoenician" languages. I can only think they meant
non-Latin and their thesaurus has gone mad.
Perhaps they meant non-phonetic and it was their spelling corrector
that went wild. After all, it would have to be non-phonetic to
support English.

-- Richard
--
"Consideration shall be given to the need for as many as 32 characters
in some alphabets" - X3.4, 1963.
Jochem Huhmann
2007-11-06 14:13:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by Jochem Huhmann
Jailbreaking gives you the ability to install a patch that fixes the
TIFF exploit which allows anyone who puts up a crafted TIFF file on a
website you visit to completely take over your touch...
True, but iPhone software 1.1.2 is close at hand and specifically fixes
this, so I'd imagine an iPod Touch update will be close behind.
I just hope 1.1.2 won't bring any new features to the touch, because if
it doesn't I can stay at my (patched) 1.1.1 and continue to enjoy all
the goodies like Mail, Finder, Terminal, Notes, a ToDo list... ;-) Tough
decisions ahead, I fear.

BTW: There's also a patch for Safari that enables file:// URLs, so you
can browse local images, PDFs and so on without stuffing them into
Data-URLs within bookmarks first.


Jochem
--
"A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no
longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Woody
2007-11-06 18:09:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jochem Huhmann
Post by Jim
Post by Jochem Huhmann
Jailbreaking gives you the ability to install a patch that fixes the
TIFF exploit which allows anyone who puts up a crafted TIFF file on a
website you visit to completely take over your touch...
True, but iPhone software 1.1.2 is close at hand and specifically fixes
this, so I'd imagine an iPod Touch update will be close behind.
I just hope 1.1.2 won't bring any new features to the touch, because if
it doesn't I can stay at my (patched) 1.1.1 and continue to enjoy all
the goodies like Mail, Finder, Terminal, Notes, a ToDo list... ;-) Tough
decisions ahead, I fear.
It would have to have some real killer features for me to want to
install it if it would get rid of the jailbroken applications.
--
Woody

www.alienrat.com
Phillip Walters
2007-11-07 11:25:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by Chris Ridd
Post by Roger Merriman
t-mob restric or at least i can't get the IM to run over a phone
conection on my nokia 770, ie via Giam so yahoo/msn/aol-.mac etc
The more I read about how horrendously the mobile phone operators work,
the more and more attractive the iPod Touch seems!
I've said it before but I'll say it again: the iPod touch is one of the few
devices I've ever bought that has completely failed to disappoint me in any
way whatsoever. I've not even Jailbroken it, partly because I don't want to
get used to features that will get removed at some point, but mostly because
there's nothing that Jailbreaking gives me that I really want.
It's a lovely, lovely device.
Jim
Just had my first play with a Touch about an hour ago, and I have to
agree it is really lovely device.

Phil

Woody
2007-11-06 18:09:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Merriman
Post by Chris Ridd
Post by Woody
Post by Chris Ridd
It is a bit academic at the moment given the lack of official iPhone
SDK, but it does look like O2 are deliberately preventing you from
running Skype. Are they allowed to do that?
It is their network, I am sure they can do what they want with it.
It *is* their network, but I'm not sure they're allowed to restrict
what is carried over it. BT aren't allowed to prevent VoIP over their
phone lines etc. Of course the usual response here of "choose another
network provider which *will* let you do this" doesn't work because
no-one else supports the iPhone.
t-mob restric or at least i can't get the IM to run over a phone
conection on my nokia 770, ie via Giam so yahoo/msn/aol-.mac etc
Works fine on my phone (on 3). Haven't actually tried it through the
770, although I am sure I could if I tried.
--
Woody

www.alienrat.com
Simon Slavin
2007-10-28 21:12:24 UTC
Permalink
On 22/10/2007, Andy Fraser wrote in message
Post by Andy Fraser
I figured that maybe things would be alright seeing
as how the iPhone is an Internet device, especially when they announced
"unlimited" data. I didn't actually think for a second that that
actually meant unlimited but I though it'd be a lot more than they're
offering after all they did say 1,400 pages per day. So they meant 1,400
very small pages per day.
The nice thing is that they do say both 'unlimited' and '1,400 pages per
day'. This is very interesting because, under English law, both of those
will be considered in connection with any complaints.

Firstly, you can't use 'unlimited' in an advert then provide a service
that's very limited. You can get away with misguiding words to some
extent (e.g. a lifetime guarantee that lasts only 25 years) but not to a
huge extent (e.g. one that lasts only 5 years). If you advertise as
'unlimited' then you have to provide something that's at least /arguably/
unlimited, within the expected use of the product.

Secondly, the mention of 1,400 pages is wonderful for customers like me.
I don't view 1,400 pages per day. In fact I don't view a tenth of that.
So I can go to court and say that I used 1,400 as a guideline, and then
decimated it to provide a ridiculously large safety margin. It's not my
fault if O2 can't do maths and they can't expect me to keep track of my
usage because they don't provide any way for customers to see how much
they've already used that month, and the device doesn't have a way to
automatically stop using services which O2 are including in their quota.
Post by Andy Fraser
[snip]
Post by Roger Merriman
still there now, i think they would have job to make 200mb sound like
"fair use" on a device like that, that has a built in youtube player
etc.
I was thinking about that earlier. I'm not much of a YouTube user but if
I were I'd be very excited that I could view YouTube videos everywhere.
After reading this thread I'd now not be using a feature that Apple
pushed as a benefit because I'd be worried about potentially being
charged a lot extra (or some other penalty) for using that feature.
Don't forget that use of your own wireless point(s) is not subject to O2's
limits. I work in a place with WiFi I can use. I sometimes stay in hotels
with open WiFi networks. It's all fine by me.

Simon.
--
http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk
Roger Merriman
2007-10-31 12:29:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Slavin
On 22/10/2007, Andy Fraser wrote in message
Post by Andy Fraser
I figured that maybe things would be alright seeing
as how the iPhone is an Internet device, especially when they announced
"unlimited" data. I didn't actually think for a second that that
actually meant unlimited but I though it'd be a lot more than they're
offering after all they did say 1,400 pages per day. So they meant 1,400
very small pages per day.
The nice thing is that they do say both 'unlimited' and '1,400 pages per
day'. This is very interesting because, under English law, both of those
will be considered in connection with any complaints.
Firstly, you can't use 'unlimited' in an advert then provide a service
that's very limited. You can get away with misguiding words to some
extent (e.g. a lifetime guarantee that lasts only 25 years) but not to a
huge extent (e.g. one that lasts only 5 years). If you advertise as
'unlimited' then you have to provide something that's at least /arguably/
unlimited, within the expected use of the product.
that i think is the nub of the issue, for a normal phone 200mb probably
is as good as unlimited, for some thing like the iphone it plainly is
not.
Post by Simon Slavin
Secondly, the mention of 1,400 pages is wonderful for customers like me.
I don't view 1,400 pages per day. In fact I don't view a tenth of that.
So I can go to court and say that I used 1,400 as a guideline, and then
decimated it to provide a ridiculously large safety margin. It's not my
fault if O2 can't do maths and they can't expect me to keep track of my
usage because they don't provide any way for customers to see how much
they've already used that month, and the device doesn't have a way to
automatically stop using services which O2 are including in their quota.
Post by Andy Fraser
[snip]
Post by Roger Merriman
still there now, i think they would have job to make 200mb sound like
"fair use" on a device like that, that has a built in youtube player
etc.
I was thinking about that earlier. I'm not much of a YouTube user but if
I were I'd be very excited that I could view YouTube videos everywhere.
After reading this thread I'd now not be using a feature that Apple
pushed as a benefit because I'd be worried about potentially being
charged a lot extra (or some other penalty) for using that feature.
Don't forget that use of your own wireless point(s) is not subject to O2's
limits. I work in a place with WiFi I can use. I sometimes stay in hotels
with open WiFi networks. It's all fine by me.
thats good if your near some, even in built up area like kingston, you
don't find that many open networks, so having the ablity to use moblie
data is very useful. i use a nokia 770 in the same way, wifi if i can if
not i use a my phone as modem.
Post by Simon Slavin
Simon.
roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com
Ian Robinson
2007-10-18 21:59:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by David
£269 for the phone, £35 for unlimited data
limited to 200MB per month. 300 texts... and an 18 month lock in - it
does make me think just a little.
I would consider an unlocked one from France if I could use Visual
Voicemail with it. I need Visual Voicemail.

Ian
--
Ian Robinson, Belfast, UK
<http://www.canicula.com/wp/>
David
2007-10-18 22:13:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Robinson
I would consider an unlocked one from France if I could use Visual
Voicemail with it. I need Visual Voicemail.
Ian
Me Too, although they are bound to have some sort of control over these
units. There have been massive headlnes about 3rd party apps in
february..... you would think there would have been mass reaction to
"unlocked iphone coming 29th Nov" there will be some issue I bet.

It is hard to know what to do but I think the developer kit release
waiting to feb will fall with a new release.....

depressed

David
Roger Merriman
2007-10-18 22:59:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phillip Walters
O2 have come clean about exactly what they will allow on an iPhone
contract.
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/idg/uk/MacworldUk/~3/171573456/index.cfm
Phil
i don't think this is a goer attaully. the iphone not only does it use
data for visual voice mail etc, but has a half decent web browser, it
also has google maps and youtube.

it would be fair use, to use a device that is desgined for the internet,
well on the internet on the move as is it's purpose. trying to make the
unlimited data, 200mb, is asking for trouble, as it is there are enought
rumblings over unlimited broadband and 8Mb etc. with out painting a
target on one's self.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com
Ben Shimmin
2007-10-18 23:32:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Merriman
Post by Phillip Walters
O2 have come clean about exactly what they will allow on an iPhone
contract.
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/idg/uk/MacworldUk/~3/171573456/index.cfm
i don't think this is a goer attaully. the iphone not only does it use
data for visual voice mail etc, but has a half decent web browser, it
also has google maps and youtube.
It says in the article:

O2 this afternoon confirmed the 200MB per month data usage
restriction to Macworld

It did occur to me, however, that on the cheapest tariff you get 200
minutes and 200 texts; perhaps whomever Macworld spoke to at O2 misheard
and thought they were asking about minutes, or texts, and not about
megabytes for data usage. Perhaps that's just wishful thinking on my part!

I'm sure we'll find out sooner or later, anyway.

b.
--
<***@bas.me.uk> <URL:http://bas.me.uk/>
`Anarchism is a game at which the police can beat you.'
-- George Bernard Shaw
Phillip Walters
2007-10-19 07:15:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ben Shimmin
Post by Roger Merriman
Post by Phillip Walters
O2 have come clean about exactly what they will allow on an iPhone
contract.
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/idg/uk/MacworldUk/~3/171573456/index.cfm
i don't think this is a goer attaully. the iphone not only does it use
data for visual voice mail etc, but has a half decent web browser, it
also has google maps and youtube.
O2 this afternoon confirmed the 200MB per month data usage
restriction to Macworld
It did occur to me, however, that on the cheapest tariff you get 200
minutes and 200 texts; perhaps whomever Macworld spoke to at O2 misheard
and thought they were asking about minutes, or texts, and not about
megabytes for data usage. Perhaps that's just wishful thinking on my part!
I'm sure we'll find out sooner or later, anyway.
b.
May be later rather than sooner, both Apple and O2 have been very tight
lipped since the Regent Street press launch, only seen one poster in an
O2 shop window so far mentioning the iPhone. Lets hope they dont go with
the announced package, but if they do I wonder how many people will be
put off. After all a lot of people are going to want it for the "Street
Cred" as much as anything else and bugger the data package.

Phil
Roger Merriman
2007-10-19 07:58:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ben Shimmin
Post by Roger Merriman
Post by Phillip Walters
O2 have come clean about exactly what they will allow on an iPhone
contract.
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/idg/uk/MacworldUk/~3/171573456/index.cfm
i don't think this is a goer attaully. the iphone not only does it use
data for visual voice mail etc, but has a half decent web browser, it
also has google maps and youtube.
O2 this afternoon confirmed the 200MB per month data usage
restriction to Macworld
It did occur to me, however, that on the cheapest tariff you get 200
minutes and 200 texts; perhaps whomever Macworld spoke to at O2 misheard
and thought they were asking about minutes, or texts, and not about
megabytes for data usage. Perhaps that's just wishful thinking on my part!
I'm sure we'll find out sooner or later, anyway.
b.
regardless if they try unlimited = 200mb on a internet device. they will
land them selfs in hot water, they will get sued.


roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com
Ian McCall
2007-10-18 23:37:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phillip Walters
O2 have come clean about exactly what they will allow on an iPhone
contract.
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/idg/uk/MacworldUk/~3/171573456/index.cfm
200Mb and 60 hours, all on EDGE instead of 3G, or wi-fi if you can get it.

I quote the great Rorshach from Watchmen: "Joking, of course". That's
hilarious. I can and do get through more than that in five days.


Cheers,
Ian
David
2007-10-19 06:56:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian McCall
Post by Phillip Walters
O2 have come clean about exactly what they will allow on an iPhone
contract.
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/idg/uk/MacworldUk/~3/171573456/index.cfm
200Mb and 60 hours, all on EDGE instead of 3G, or wi-fi if you can get it.
I quote the great Rorshach from Watchmen: "Joking, of course". That's
hilarious. I can and do get through more than that in five days.
Cheers,
Ian
I might ignore all this and see what the 02 site says nearer to the
time. If it is limited to 200MB then that really isn't fair usage. Is
anyone on O2 at the minite and able to tell us what their current
unlimited bundle offers as a fair usage ?

200MB on what is described as a revolutionary internet device is like
having a sports car with a 2 litre fuel tank.

David

ps does anyone know if the iphone will work in a bt openzone ? I am
assuming it will. ?
Danny Thompson
2007-10-19 07:14:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by David
ps does anyone know if the iphone will work in a bt openzone ? I am
assuming it will. ?
It works fine on BT Openzone, The Cloud, Swisscom (where it just chokes
on the price), my own and friends' and any other 802.11 whatever
hotspot.

As seamless as it gets really.

A month on I find myself using the Touch *a lot* for quick web browsing,
checking the news etc, even when I've got the Macbook available. For
example, in a hotel lobby whereas previously I would have sat down and
taken out the Macbook, now I can use the Touch much more quickly and
unobtrusively. The alleged 200Mb cap therefore worries me.

Danny
Ray Hutchings
2007-10-19 15:38:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian McCall
Post by Phillip Walters
O2 have come clean about exactly what they will allow on an iPhone
contract.
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/idg/uk/MacworldUk/~3/171573456/index.cfm
200Mb and 60 hours, all on EDGE instead of 3G, or wi-fi if you can get it.
I'm sure I'm missing something here, but both the Apple site
(http://www.apple.com/uk/iphone/easysetup/rateplans.html) and the O2
site (http://www.o2.co.uk/iPhone-Tariffs.html) say unlimited data and
unlimited wifi.

Where's the small print that says otherwise?
Ian Robinson
2007-10-19 15:42:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray Hutchings
I'm sure I'm missing something here, but both the Apple site
(http://www.apple.com/uk/iphone/easysetup/rateplans.html) and the O2
site (http://www.o2.co.uk/iPhone-Tariffs.html) say unlimited data and
unlimited wifi.
Where's the small print that says otherwise?
Acceptable Usage Policy. Which we haven't seen yet but may have been
outlined in an interview as 200MB a month for Edge data and 60 hours of
WiFI access via The Cloud.

Ian
--
Ian Robinson, Belfast, UK
<http://www.canicula.com/wp/>
Phillip Walters
2007-10-19 16:03:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray Hutchings
Post by Ian McCall
Post by Phillip Walters
O2 have come clean about exactly what they will allow on an iPhone
contract.
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/idg/uk/MacworldUk/~3/171573456/index.cfm
200Mb and 60 hours, all on EDGE instead of 3G, or wi-fi if you can get it.
I'm sure I'm missing something here, but both the Apple site
(http://www.apple.com/uk/iphone/easysetup/rateplans.html) and the O2
site (http://www.o2.co.uk/iPhone-Tariffs.html) say unlimited data and
unlimited wifi.
Where's the small print that says otherwise?
Beware of the asterisk *

Phil
zoara
2007-10-19 19:48:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phillip Walters
O2 have come clean about exactly what they will allow on an iPhone
contract.
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/idg/uk/MacworldUk/~3/171573456/index.cfm
I think we should all repeatedly phone o2, enquire about the iPhone,
then get into an argument about the use of the term 'unlimited'. They
might get the hint.

-z-
--
No 3G. Fewer megapixels than an N95. Lame.
Danny Thompson
2007-10-19 20:48:25 UTC
Permalink
David
2007-10-19 22:32:01 UTC
Permalink
On 2007-10-19 21:48:25 +0100, Danny Thompson
If the FUP qualification to 'unlimited' is 200Mb however, I will find
it almost impossible to justify. £35/45 per month is manageable, but
fretting about getting hit with extra charges for data use will take
away the raison d'etre of the device.
Danny
(1) a very small axe, obviously
I am in the same position. Having jail broke my touch and seen how the
google maps, email, weather etc work there is really is not the same
internet control that my smartphone offers etc. I was happy with the
unlimited data idea as i thought I wouldn't have to think about it.
With limited control over the frequency of email checking and there is
no limit over how much of each email is downloaded I can see that 200MB
being used up in 2 weeks !

a real pity.

David
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